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Powders that Fill Up Cases for .38 Special and 9MM

kbm6893

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I got a pound of Red Dot and 2 Pounds of SR7625. I plan to use the Red Dot for the .38 and the 7625 for the 9MM. But as a new reloader, I would prefer a powder that fills up the case to prevent a double charge. Believe me, I am SUPER careful and will be weighing the powders more then once to make sure I do not get a double charge, but I'm the type of guy who checks to make sure the oven is off before I leave the house even if I haven't used it in three days, so I would feel much better if I was nearly filling the case so it is not even possible to double charge.

A shop I was in the other day had some Trail Boss, but the Hodgson manual they had in the store didn't list TB as a powder for .38.

Also, the manuals will list bullet weights for the charges. In .38, Hodgson had data for 110 and 125 grain bullets. So what do I do if I only have 158 grain rounds? Can't use the powder listed?
 
TB is excellent in 38sp
max is 4.0gr 158lswc i use 3.5 nice accurate load
in 9mm i use 4.7gr green dot with 115gr plated rn very accurate as well and just about fill case
 
Definitely buy yourself some trailboss. It is my favorite for .38 Special. I load 5.0 gn under a 125gn Berry flatpoint for just plinking around the range. It fills the case up 80%. For my 9mm I use Titegroup, under a 115gn Berry RN and it fills the case about 65-70%, so a double charge would overflow. Also, load data for both powders can be found on the Hodgdon Reloading website.

Hodgdon Reloading | Home
 
TB runs fine in 38sp & fills the case nicely. In 9mm, just about anything but TG fills the small case to where a double over flows, so you are good to go there. TB shoudl only be used for lead bullets, as it was designed for.
 
If you are not happy with the SR powder in the 9mm........

Red Dot will fill that case in a hurry !
With a 124gr FMJ design with a 1.12" OAL, just 3.8grs of Red Dot will be at or near the base of the bullet.
This bullet seated at a OAL of 1.16" will have 4.2grs of Red Dot at or near the base of the bullet and will work the action of the 9mm I am testing.

Safe loading.
 
So lead bullets only in trail boss?
That is what has been stated. I haven't looked but you'll probably find the listing for Trail Boss in a separate Cowboy load category and those bullets are almost universally lead. Because Cowboy loads tend to be quite light and running a plated bullet under 600 fps. is just begging to get a squib stuck in your barrel.

BTW, do NOT try using that SR7625 in your 38 special loads, I've done that and SR7625 is extremely position sensitive in the 38 special. Pointing the barrel down prior to a shot resulted in a muzzle velocity of only 400 fps. and pointing the barrel up resulted in a velocity of 700 fps. That is a near 50% swing in the velocity the is dependent of the position of the powder in the case.

The good news is that I expect you'll find SR7625 is a fantastic powder for mild shooting target loads in the 9mm. I use SR7625 in my 40 and 45 ACP target ammo and while it produces mid range velocities it does it with less muzzle flip or recoil than a comparable Federal Champion loading.

You don't need to weigh your charges 2 or 3 times, just once is good enough. The key to not producing a double charge is to charge a full tray of cases and before putting bullets on top you take a penlight and look at the entire tray to insure every case is pretty much even. If you have a case that wasn't filled or double charged a case the difference will be distinctly obvious.

Finally, if you are using a powder measure it's a good idea to use a bit of applied Statistics to determine if your powder measure is consistent enough with the powder you are using. What you want to do is run a Capability Study to determine the Standard Deviation. BTW, SR7625 meters wonderfully so almost any powder measure will have a load to load variation of +/- 0.04 grain or less. Cant tell you how Trail Boss meters, haven't ever used it. I can tell you Unique and Longshot both vary by +/- 0.2 grain from my RCBS Competition Measure, so those powders get every single charge weighed by hand.

Finally powders on my "good" list, meaning they meter very well. Accurate #5, #7, and #9 meter very well. Also Hodgdon H110 and Winchester 296, grain size is comparable to the Accurate powders. You can probably assume that Accurate #2 is the same as the others although I've never used it. Vihtavouri 3N37 and SR7625 are slightly courser than the previous powders but this doesn't impede the metering quality at all and it does produce a powder that is basically leak free in the Lee Perfect Powder Measure. BTW, leakage issues with Accurate powders in the Lee measure is why I now do all my loading with my RCBS Competition measure. It wasn't cheap to purchase but it doesn't leak and it doesn't tend to jam with powder particles between the drum and housing like the Lee measure does when using a very fine grained powder.
 
As others have noted, Trail Boss is a good powder for the .38 special.

With powder being difficult find these days, you may be forced to take whatever is readily available.

Remember, you don't necessarily need a powder that fills the case. A powder that fills approximately half of the case makes seeing a double charge pretty easy. The powders that really create a double charge hazard are the powders (i.e. Bullseye, and AA#2) that use so little powder that a double charge is not readily evident.
 
Trail Boss was developed for previous black powder cartridges typically used in Cowboy Action shooting and you can find load data by selecting common lead bullet weights, IMR powder, and the Trail Boss in the Hodgdon data sight. Don't expect great velocity performance as the powder delivers only target load velocities. Besides being a low density powder it has quite a fast burning rate, about the same as Red Dot but should not be compressed as high pressures will result. The small bottle of Trail Boss is 9 oz. rather than a pound. TB isn't useful in 9mm, .40 S&W as the volume of a charge is too big for the available case volume.

Red Dot has reasonable volume density so a double charge will be spilling over a 9mm case and should be quite noticeable in the .38 spl. Fast powder, lower level velocities for target loads.

To show how Red Dot fills a 9mm case, the picture below shows a 9mm case with 4.2gr of Red Dot.

9mmreddot.jpg
 
Trail Boss was made for "Cowboy' shooting at Black Powder speeds.........

with the minimal to slow velocity it works great with LEAD bullets in pistols and rifles but...........

a MAXIMUM load might not be enough powder to get a copper or plated bullet up to enough fps to exit a barrel.

A great powder for the wife and kids, if they like to shoot.
 
I would suggest Unique, but as has been noted, not all powders are readily available. IIRC, most of our powder is manufactured in Australia, and they have really peculiar safety regs when it comes to shipping to America.

Last I saw, Unique is about $300 for an 8 pound jug.
 
Red Dot is great for 9 and .38. However in the .38 you'll have a hard time finding a powder that does doesn't allow at least one double charge. except maybe trailboss. most allow two or three or even 4 charges before they will overflow. Keep a close eye on your procedure and visually check every charge every time.
 
Red Dot is great for 9 and .38. However in the .38 you'll have a hard time finding a powder that does doesn't allow at least one double charge. except maybe trailboss. most allow two or three or even 4 charges before they will overflow. Keep a close eye on your procedure and visually check every charge every time.

Many powders will "allow" a dbl in 38sp & larger case, not the point though. Choose a powder that allows an obvious visual load level, ie, a double charge that nearly or does overflow the case, making it obvious there is a dbl. Equally important, being able to see ANY powder charge to prevent a squib. Potentially as dangerous as a dbl.
 
Many powders will "allow" a dbl in 38sp & larger case, not the point though.


Sure it is. I was responding to the OP's post:

I would prefer a powder that fills up the case to prevent a double charge. ......... I would feel much better if I was nearly filling the case so it is not even possible to double charge.
 
A lot of "Target loads" use a fast powder with a light charge which does work.........
However I also like the idea of a case that is 60% full to try to have powder at the height of the primer or more, for maybe better ES readings.
Several of the powders that I use with 38 special loadings improve in the ES department as the powder load increases.

I have had Red Dot down to a 9 ES and a 100% volume load of imr 4227 at 16 with a 125gr JHP........(not the cleanest burn) but then again, you do know the case is full of powder !!
 
Green Dot has worked well for me in this regard, being somewhat bulkier than most other fast burning propellants.
A lot less costly than TB, too.
 
Well...if you REALLY want to fill the case to totally eliminate a double charge...then FFFg black powder will do it!!

SASS shooter do it all the time......makes some good smoke as well which is part of the fun!!

Randy
 
Not exactly what you asked, but last week I loaded some 125 gr plated flat point bullets (Xtreme) in 357 Mag cases. Because the plating has more resistance, I used the maximum load of 5.3 gr per Hodgdon's loading site. The powder level was right up to the base of the bullet. They show just under 18,000 PSI with hard cast bullets. The pressure might be somewhat higher with plated, but felt like non plus P from my 2.5 inch M686 PC. I wasn't expecting much in the accuracy department, but I was getting some 2 inch groups off of a rest at 50 feet. Thats as well as I can do with any load. The powder is light colored, and the level shows up very well with my LED flashlight. I have used this powder with 38 Spec cases before, but wasn't getting anywhere near the accuracy, so I think the pressure was too low to get a good seal with the plated bullets.
I will be doing more work with the Magnum cases and plated bullets, the only kind I can use at the indoor range.

Best,
Rick
 
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