How does the factory crimp die differ from the provided crimp die? Does a 9mm factory crimp die do a taper crimp and a .38 factory crimp die do a roll crimp?? How is it better???
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Ok, what''s with the factory crimp die
- Thread starter rwsmith
- Start date
Ain't better.The difference is a carbide sizing ring in the die so the case is sized after the bullet is seated and crimped. It is a band-aid fix for improperly adjusted dies, usually over crimping and/or bulging the case. The one I wasted my money on was for a .44 and it did a half-ashed roll crimp (it now resides in a landfill in /southern Oregon). For 9mm use a plain old taper crimp die and seat and crimp in a separate step...
Yes, the revolver FCD will roll crimp and the semi auto will taper crimp. It allows crimping as a separate stage. As mentioned it will also iron out any deformities in the case so that it will always chamber.
Some like it, some do not as they claim it reduces the size of over sized lead bullets. The discussion , rage and bloodshed has gone on for many years.
I like crimping as a separate operation, if you do not like the outside case resizng you can break the carbide ring out of it or buy a regular crimp die.
Some like it, some do not as they claim it reduces the size of over sized lead bullets. The discussion , rage and bloodshed has gone on for many years.
I like crimping as a separate operation, if you do not like the outside case resizng you can break the carbide ring out of it or buy a regular crimp die.
MyDads38
Well-known member
I have FCDs for 9mm, 45auto and 223/5.56. The only one I've used so far is the 45auto. The instruction says for revolver cartridges, it puts on a roll crimp. Unfortunately, the instructions don't say what type of crimp the auto cartridges receive. I'm going to guess taper crimp.
The Carbide FCD for pistol cartridges also resizes the case entering/exiting the die. Since I only load cast bullets, every one of my 45 auto cases get sized in the FCD. This bothered me for a while, until I figured out it was because the cast bullets are .452" diameter. I guess it bothered me that now the case and cast bullet are both sized/swaged down to a smaller diameter.
Thing is, when I DON'T use the FCD with my cast loads, they still function fine in my Ruger SR1911. I'm on the fence whether I want my finished rounds re-sized again during crimping, and am considering a Lee Taper Crimp Die. I do like seating/crimping in separate steps, as my rounds come out more consistent than with 3 die set-up.
I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die and I find it works very well. It's certainly not a "band aid fix" for any kind of improperly adjusted dies I've been using. I've inspected the cases before and after each operation and see no significant difference. If it affects the final load in any way I haven't seen it in accuracy or gun function. I also don't own a single reloading guide. I've been reloading on and off for 50 years and I think I've got it pretty well under control. When I started, I went with what other reloaders advised as well as information provided with my guns relating to the load used to test fire them. Now there's more information available on the internet that answers most questions. I have found that using the separate crimping die gives me a much more consistent final product. I guess it all boils down to using what works best for you.
tomf52
Well-known member
If you have a Lee FCD that is resizing properly sized lead bullets in the crimping operation send the die back to Lee as it is faulty. A properly sized bullet loaded in a case WILL NOT be swaged down any further. The Lee FCD only reduces the outside diameter of the case to SAAMI specs, nothing more. I have been reloading for years with these dies and have had no problems with them.
Groo01
Well-known member
Groo here
The FCD works best for those guns with tight or match chambers,
and/or for those times that ammo MUST feed and fit,aka SD, dangerous
game backup, or loads shot in many different guns [plinkers]
If you have oversized chambers or custom fit a load for each gun,,
they are not so good..
The FCD works best for those guns with tight or match chambers,
and/or for those times that ammo MUST feed and fit,aka SD, dangerous
game backup, or loads shot in many different guns [plinkers]
If you have oversized chambers or custom fit a load for each gun,,
they are not so good..
Moe Mentum
Well-known member
I use all my FCD's in multiple calibers. They work !
racknrider
Well-known member
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FWIW I have a gun that choked on ammo loaded on a square deal. I load the same components on a Lee turret wit the FCD and the gun runs 100%.
MyDads38
Well-known member
I agree, the die does what it is intended to do-resize any part of the loaded cartridge to SAAMI specs. But with that in mind, cast lead bullets are .452" compared to jacketed bullets, which are .451". I don't load jacketed bullets, as the velocities I load to fall 1,000 FPS or less in all my handgun rounds.
All the initial rounds I loaded with the FCD absolutely fit/functioned flawlessly in my 1911. It just bothered me that the FCD re-sized every round that went through it. And it's not like it's full length re-sizing the entire cartridge again, that would definitely mean a call to Lee Customer Service!
Make no mistake, I'm not a newb to reloading and have loaded many different handgun, pistol, rifle and shotgun rounds over the years. As with most, my handgun loads were assembled on 3 die sets and rifle with 2 die sets-no issues or problems. I thought the FCD was something that would aid those who might have problems with functioning issues, especially in auto loading pistols; and I think it does just that. An add'l plus is that using a separate seating/crimping die, my C.O.L. is more consistent, which is a plus for functioning/accuracy.
I may just be a tad towards the anal side when it comes to reloading my ammo, but it has worked for me for about 34 years
I haven't tried the 9mm or 223/5.56 dies yet, but will soon.
nicky4968
Well-known member
In olden times we would run cartridges through the sizing die a second time after seating and crimping. This would ensure that the rounds would chamber and function as they should.
Lee Precision's motto is, "For ammunition that MUST work.".
'Nuff said.
Lee Precision's motto is, "For ammunition that MUST work.".
'Nuff said.
forestswin
Well-known member
rw,
I bought a 4 die Lee set and use the FCD for 9mm. I've only shot lead so far and have not had any issue in my Model 59. You can feel it work on some cases and sometimes it doesn't seem to touch the case at all and just takes the flare out at the mouth.
Brian Pearce wrote an article about crimping back in the Dec. 2012 issue of Handloader. Here's what he said, and I quote:
"Lee Precision has some truly innovative handloading tools, including its current Carbide Factory Crimp Die. A carbide sizer located inside the crimp die sizes the case again (only if needed) while the crimp is applied, assuring that cases cannot buckle and that loaded cartridges are within industry specification. Sample .44 Magnum cartridges were recently received from a small ammunition outfit that is trying to get into production and wanted my opinion of their performance. Many of the cartridges had excess crimp, with a case bulge just below the crimp, and would not chamber in the minimum-sized chambers of a Freedom Arms Model 83. Out of curiosity, these out-of-spec cartridges were run through the Lee carbide factory crimp die without changing bullet seating, and they would then easily chamber. This die has a floating bushing that houses the roll-crimp ring that can be adjusted to produce an unusually heavy crimp for bullets featuring deep crimp grooves. The Lee die will not seat bullets; it’s a crimp die only."
If you are looking into it for 38/357. I'd suggest also looking into the Redding Profile Crimp Die. Great die! it reduced my extreme spread and Std Dev. as compared to the standard Hornady die, and groups were somewhat better.
I bought a 4 die Lee set and use the FCD for 9mm. I've only shot lead so far and have not had any issue in my Model 59. You can feel it work on some cases and sometimes it doesn't seem to touch the case at all and just takes the flare out at the mouth.
Brian Pearce wrote an article about crimping back in the Dec. 2012 issue of Handloader. Here's what he said, and I quote:
"Lee Precision has some truly innovative handloading tools, including its current Carbide Factory Crimp Die. A carbide sizer located inside the crimp die sizes the case again (only if needed) while the crimp is applied, assuring that cases cannot buckle and that loaded cartridges are within industry specification. Sample .44 Magnum cartridges were recently received from a small ammunition outfit that is trying to get into production and wanted my opinion of their performance. Many of the cartridges had excess crimp, with a case bulge just below the crimp, and would not chamber in the minimum-sized chambers of a Freedom Arms Model 83. Out of curiosity, these out-of-spec cartridges were run through the Lee carbide factory crimp die without changing bullet seating, and they would then easily chamber. This die has a floating bushing that houses the roll-crimp ring that can be adjusted to produce an unusually heavy crimp for bullets featuring deep crimp grooves. The Lee die will not seat bullets; it’s a crimp die only."
If you are looking into it for 38/357. I'd suggest also looking into the Redding Profile Crimp Die. Great die! it reduced my extreme spread and Std Dev. as compared to the standard Hornady die, and groups were somewhat better.
Twoboxer
Well-known member
- If you want to separate "crimp" from seating, the Lee FCD die is a great way to do it. It will "crimp" (including removing the bell) without requiring cases to be of the same length, and it is far easier to adjust than seat/crimp in the same die. It is also a final QC check on your ammo.
- If you don't want to separate "crimp" from seating, there is no real need for a Lee FCD die. You should be able to make in-spec ammo without a final sizing in any case.
- If you don't want to separate "crimp" from seating, there is no real need for a Lee FCD die. You should be able to make in-spec ammo without a final sizing in any case.
I use the same die.....
I use the seating/crimping die in two operations (single stage press) but having to adjust the dies every time is a pain, though it works ok for the volumes that I load. I'll consider using a separate crimping die to eliminate this problem. That is after I buy a whole lotta other stuff.
I use the seating/crimping die in two operations (single stage press) but having to adjust the dies every time is a pain, though it works ok for the volumes that I load. I'll consider using a separate crimping die to eliminate this problem. That is after I buy a whole lotta other stuff.
MichiganScott
Well-known member
I've always used the crimper that comes with the RCBS 3-die sets. I started reloading on the cheap while going to college more years ago than I care to admit and the fourth die just cost more than I was willing to spend. Old habits die hard.
For loading jacketed bullets, I seat and crimp at the same time. If I need to crimp separately because of peeling a lead bullet, I stick an extra die lock ring on the die to raise the crimp shoulder out of the way. Readjustment of the seating stem is no big deal if you keep a dummy round on hand.
For loading jacketed bullets, I seat and crimp at the same time. If I need to crimp separately because of peeling a lead bullet, I stick an extra die lock ring on the die to raise the crimp shoulder out of the way. Readjustment of the seating stem is no big deal if you keep a dummy round on hand.
Ivan the Butcher
Well-known member
I have several FCD"s, the most useful of the bunch is the 44-40 FCD. My original batch of 44-40 ammo was on virgin brass. I acquired several hundred used cases and could not get reloads without crushing the majority of rounds in a 2 stage crimping process. I switch a RCBS factory roll crimp out for the Lee FCD and this cured all the problems. My Ruger Vaqueros have very tight chambers and require .427 bullets. The empties have been shot in my 3 44-40's plus Dozens of others and the variance in chambers is unbelievable! I picked up FCD's in several bottle necked cartridges and have started loading the odd ball, thin walled rounds with them. Others are on hand in case a problem should develop in the future. I haven't needed them for any of the straight cases or the long tapered cases (like 45-70 or 38-55) but I have them on the shelf if I need them. Ivan
fredj338
Well-known member
A solution to poor quality dies or improper technique IMO. I have managed for decades to make reliable, accurate ammo w/o one. The handgun dies are diff than rifle, just not a fan of the handgun LFCD. If you want crimp as a separate step, just get another seating die & remove the stem. The resizing ring is the issue.
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kbm6893
SWCA Member
Will the bullet seating die that comes with the lee 4 die set crimp as well, or is that option removed from the bullet seating die? I'm about to get into reloading and the 4 die set just seems to make more sense. Adjusting one die to do two things at the same time just seems more complicated. I'm gonna be starting with 38/357, then moving onto 9MM and 30-06 at some point.
