Okay, I have experience only loading non-crimped rifle ammo on a single stage press. I’m now preparing to move into new territory of loading pistol ammo with a five station progressive loader. I’m researching what I need and am unclear on a few things related to the types of dies to load .45 Auto, .38 spl, .44 spl, and 357 mag.
1. How do I determine if crimping is needed for a given cartridge? Will all the rounds I listed need to be crimped?
2. I do not plan to cast my own bullets anytime soon, but if I ever do go that extra step, would the dies I buy now matter for that latter?
3. The basic dies recommended to load pistol ammo as I understand it are:
a. Sizing Die
b. Bullet seating Die
c. Crimp Die
4. What about expander dies? I understand they are no longer considered a standard usage item. I’m looking at the Redding Dual ring sizing dies which are said to perform by having one ring positioned to properly size the bullet retention portion of the case, and the other ring positioned to size the case body to the proper dimensions for easy chambering without undue over working of the brass. Is this die therefore doing double duty, i.e what an expander die and normal sizing die would do? I’m already confused with what the case prep requirements are for straight wall pistol brass.
5. So if I go with the following, would that be a good setup? I really like Redding dies, but am open minded on that front.
a. Redding Dual ring sizer die
b. Redding bullet seater die (no crimping with this die)
c. Redding crimp die
d. Somebody’s powder checker die
Am I missing anything here?
What is a Trim die for?

First you need to learn the basics.
Here's a demo video of how a progressive works and what each die does: Dillon Precision Presents the Square Deal B - YouTube

The Dillon SDB uses proprietary dies, and comes with one set on the machine. Conversion kits are available.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0__O...ature=youtu.be
The other Dillon machines use standard thread dies, but personally I much prefer the Dillon brand dies for progressive machines because they are specifically made to feed easily on a progressive press, and have the expander built into the powder measure. You DO NEED AN EXPANDER DIE TO LOAD PISTOL CARTRIDGES.

Whatever machine you decide to get, life is going to be much simpler if you use everything on the machine that matches rather than using one of this brand and another of that.

Since your knowledge level is evidently low, buying a set-up machine, such as a Dillon, will be much easier to learn on.

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Science plus Art

There are gazillions of reference books on this subj. Are there any particulare ones highly regarded as "The go to" manual for metalic pistal cartridge reloading?

Two often mentioned are "The ABC's of Reloading" and "Lyman's Reloading Manual" - which is currently in the 49th Edition.

Richard Lee's "Modern Reloading" or reloading manuals by Speer, and Hornady are equally as welcome in my library.

They are all good. Perhaps a trip to your local library is in order. Peruse them all then go out and buy the one(s) that speak to you.

Used books on EBay or at Half Price Book Stores are also good sources.

I am particularly fond of an on line source ~ AbeBooks Official Site - New & Used Books, Textbooks, & Rare Books ~ a bunch of independent book sellers who have come together to form a consortium.

In short, if you're going to be a good reloader, you should also be a good reader.

IF you are going with a any progressive & a powder thru die, the expander will be separate as part of the powder delivery die, or pwoder thru die. SO you can go with the die setup you list, at elast with a LNL or Dilllon, but you will have to buy the PTD for the LNL, Dillon will come with the press & conversion.
You don't need to trim pistol cases, ever. There is some mert to trimming the longer magnum cases for uniform roll crimping, but I have nver trimmed a service pistol case, ever.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

All pistol ammo needs to be crimped. The revolver rounds take a roll crimp, and the semiauto rounds, like the .45 ACP use a taper crimp. This taper crimp is basically just to remove the flare to the case mouth, as case tension holds the bullet in place.

If you're buying dies, the Lee dies work fine, but whatever you get be sure the sizing die is carbide.(Do they even make non-carbide dies anymore?)

Read all you can, and go slow and be careful.

Good luck!

Here are two videos that will cover the type of press I use for my 45 ACP and 9mm Luger reloads. Gavin does an excellent job covering all aspects. Optional features can be added later on. A Trim Die is an archaic substitute for a Case Trimmer as you'll see below. It uses a file.

1 Hornady Lock-N-Load AP Overview Part I - YouTube

2 Hornady Lock-N-Load AP Overview Part II - YouTube

3 Trim Dies - YouTube

As you can see a lot of good information is available through Youtube.

I use a Dillon 550B progressive. I've found that some die brands are too short overall to be easily used with the Dillon. I've heard of people putting the lock ring under the die plate or holder to get it all to work.

I too would go with Dillon dies in the Dillon press. Be aware that when seating semi-wadcutters in revolver cartridges, you may need a second bullet seating punch to conform to the shape of the bullet. I had problems with .44 Mag dies shaving a bit of the lead off the top of the bullet as the bullets didn't match the seating punch.

For handgun reloading I found this to be very good:

Reloading for Handgunners: Patrick Sweeney: 9781440217708: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512z%2B-luEWL.@@AMEPARAM@@512z%2B-luEWL

I got MUCH more from it than from the ABC's.

Alright! Thanks all for this bit of pass down.

I think some of my confusion is coming from reading the different manufacturers marketing on their dies, and die sets to determine what dies I would need. I do understand the basics of what has to be done, my confusion is coming with which version dies must or should be used vs which ones are nice to have.
So for a FIVE station progressive press, are these the basic layouts?

Option A:
1. Sizing/decapper die
2. Expander die
3. Shell activated, through powder die
4. Powder charge checker die
5. Combo bullet seater and crimping die

Option B:
1. Sizing/decapper die
2. Expander die
3. Shell activated, through powder die
4. Dedicated Bullet seater die
5. Dedicated Bullet crimping die
(No powder checker die this option)

Option C:
1. Combo Sizing/Expander/decapper die
2. Shell activated, through powder die
3. Powder charge checker die
4. Dedicated Bullet seater die
5. Dedicated Crimping die

You going to tell us which press you decided upon or are you still pondering

I was going to say here's a handy easy chart from Hornady but I then remembered it's quite the eye chart! I'm sure the other brands have similar reference charts.

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/...ials_Chart.pdf

Start small, do all the reading you've been asking about, watch a bunch of the youtube videos folks have posted, review some of the similar threads here, and all will work its way out! I don't claim to be an expert or in the caliber of many of the fine folks you've received input from, but I do remember the stage of the process you're in now.

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Really? U saw it in Wikipedia?

Option C doesn't work. No such thing as size/expand in the same die.

On my Hornady AP loading .38 it goes:

1. Decap/FL size
2. Open
3. Powder through/Expand
4. Bullet feed
5. Seat/Crimp

Many prefer to seat and crimp separately.

Rifle ammo needs to be done in two passes.

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John

I reload on a Hornady LnL progressive, so I use another combination, so here's an option "D":

1. Sizing/decapping die
2. Shell activated, powder through/expander die
3. Powder charge check die
4. Dedicated Bullet seater die
5. Dedicated Bullet crimping die

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NRA Life Member

Option "D" above is what I use on my 650.

Have a look at this die. Have I misunderstood what it's supposed to do?

Dual Ring Carbide Sizing Dies in .38 SPL & .44 SPL | Redding Reloading Equipment: reloading equipment for rifles, handguns, pistols, revolvers and SAECO bullet casting equipment

This makes the most sense of what I've been trying to resolve. Does the Hornady LNL AP come with this powder through/expander die standard? When I read the manf descriptions of this press, there is no mention of the expander application. When I look at the expander dies for the Hornady, non indicate they are for use coupled to the powder measure.

On ALL progressives with a pwoder thru option, the flare/bell is applied there. So with most die sets, you will not need the flare/bell die on a progressive IF you are using the powder thru option & why wouldn't you for handgun?

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

My powder checker is my Mk68 a1 calibrated eyeball, so my Dillon is set up,like this:

Station 1 size, decap, prime
Station 2 powder charge and flare the case mouth
Station 3, seat bullet and crimp case
Station 4, crimp casemouth if not done at station 3

Really simple, and pretty much sorts itself out. Imthink you are overthinking this a bit. Buy a press and a set of dies, and go for it.

The case activated powder drop does not come with the expander option. It can be added. I use the 3 die sets. I've got a powder cop and I've also got separate seater/crimp for some calibers/bullets. Like someone else said, don't over think this. Get a 3 die set for one caliber, and go from there, .... slowly, ... Good luck! Is it fair to assume you've chosen the LNL from your comments???

For use in conjunction with the Hornady Case Activated Powder Drop, the Quick Change Powder Die and Powder Through Expanders make reloading pistol cartridges on your Lock-N-Load faster and easier. The Quick Change die comes with a lower bracket with guide bushing and lock ring. Expanders are available (sold separately) in .355, .357, .400, .430, .451, .452, .475 and .500 diameter for both lead cast bullets and copper plated bullets. The Expanders allow you to charge the case while expanding the case mouth (Hornady suggest you fill that station with the powder cop die so you can ensure that each case is properly charged with powder. The Powder Cop die is sold separately).

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Really? U saw it in Wikipedia?

This is a really cool thread. Tons of info.

That's a nice looking die and may work very well, but its for the resizing/decapping station and does not provide any "flare" for bullet seating.

Jeff

Thanks to all who have offered me their advice. I called Hornady and spoke to them for some clarification and now I get it. As smokindog alluded to, the powder drop station can do double duty as both powder drop and case expander for bullet seating prep. This Powder Through Expander (PTX) is not a die, but rather an optional insert that is changed according to the caliber needed. Goes inside the measure adapter with case activated powder drop, in the powder drop station. I know you guys already knew this, but now I understand it better.
To answer some of yous guys question to me, yes I decided on the Hornady LNL AP. I ordered the basic unit today. I will start off without the fancy extra stuff and learn the press and set-ups at the simplest level. I at least now know enough to begin ordering what I actually need. Thanks again to all

I'm old school. I decap, resize, cut the case length to size if needed, clean out the primer pocket. Before it goes into the progressive press I install the primers. Then they go into the progressive press to be charged and loaded.

Don't forget to purchase the carbide handgun caliber dies.

With respect, it sounds like you need a reloading mentor to help you get up and running.

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The American dream is alive

I'm always slow coming off the line.

One more thing to remember: You'll be a happier camper if you buy die sets designed for a progressive, rather than the standard three-die pistol sets. On a progressive, the expanding (belling) of the case mouth is performed by the powder drop tube, not an expander die. Also, most progressives seat and crimp the bullet at different stations. You mentioned Redding, and they make very good dies. Their "Pro Series" is what you want. Hornady and Dillon have similar sets. I use Dillon pistol dies and mostly Redding rifle dies in my Dillon 550B. Good luck and let us know how it's going.

Don't forget, you DO need the Quick Change Powder Die to use the PTX inserts at the powder drop station, IF you want to go that route!

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Really? U saw it in Wikipedia?

Are you referring to the lower assembly of the Case activated powder drop? This is fig.21 in the LNL AP manual, pg. 11.

I don't use it, was just quoting from the documentation.. Sorry, thought I made that clear but now you've got me curious

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Really? U saw it in Wikipedia?

Good thinking on starting with the "basics" and adding as you learn/grow/need. I would, however, advise considering:

- (a) the PTX expanders as part of your "basics" . . . IOW, buy the caliber specific expanders you need, or a universal one (I've never used that one). You need to bell the cases, start out the right way.

- (b) a Powder Check Die as part of your basics . . . everyone has their own favorite, but the Hornady Check Die works best on the LnL AP because it will not get in the way of the Powder Measure/Linkage/Die assembly it must sit next to. The RCBS die (eg) has an off-center stalk sticking up that will force you to insert that die at a particular time and in a particular way to get it past the PM-et-al.

- (c) buy 2 cans of the Hornady One Shot Cleaner that your LnL AP's instructions call for to clean the press and PM (yes, the PM too). Using the "right" cleaner will not leave you wondering was it my cleaner that caused my issues? or my cleaning? After you get started, use any cleaner you want.

- Once you get started, focus on keeping the primer slide AND THE PRIMER PUNCH very clean.

- Make certain the primer punch retracts fully back into its housing - this may take several flushings of cleaner to achieve. The press comes with one installed under the subplate . . . remove it, clean it, reinstall it as part of the initial prep work.

- If powder starts popping out of your cases as the press indexes (likely with 38, probable with 45), adjust the ball bearings in the shellplate so they don't protrude as much by tapping them in with a punch (if you go too far, turn the plate over and tap back from the other side). Once the bearings settle lovingly into their detents instead of snapping, the powder popping will stop

And don't hesitate to ask here (or call Hornady as you've discovered) if/when you have any other issues with your new press.

GLHF stay safe.

So you made me go out to my room and it appears the press came with everything but the proper expander inserts Like I said, I just started with the 3 die sets for most of my work! I "added" from there.

Powder Drop Expander and Die Setup - YouTube

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Really? U saw it in Wikipedia?

This whole process could be greatly simplified. Call Dillon, order 550b plus dies. Save yourself some headaches.

Autoloader cartridges like the 45acp use a taper crimp. Revolver cartridges (.38 spl, .44 spl, and 357 mag) use a roll crimp.

Some pistol die sets contain (a) carbide sizing & decapping die, (b) a combination bullet-seater and crimp die. The carbide sizer eliminates the need for case lube.

Combo seater/sizing dies require a 2-step setup process (1) to get the bullet seated to the correct depth and (2) to get the proper crimp. Many die manufacturers now offer separate seating and crimping dies (much better IMO).

Both Redding and Lee have mandrel-type crimping dies that will make a strong roll crimp without the need for trimming brass to exact length. Far superior to the standard roll crimp dies.

No.
The process normally goes:

1. Resizing & depriming
2. case mouth flaring (what you call expanding) and powder charging.
3. Bullet seating
4. Crimping

This usually requires 4 dies mounted on a tool head, or 3 dies if the combo seating/crimping is used. So the Lee Classic Turret is a 4 die press, the older Lee turret is a 3 die. The Dillon SDB is a 4 die press. The Dillon 550 is a 4 die press whereas the 650 is a 5 die press.


You're missing the case mouth flaring and powder charge die - you really have 5 die process there.

Everything you WANT can be done with the Dillon 650. Everything you NEED can be done with the Lee Classic Turret. Quite a spread in price between the two, but I use them as extremes.

If you are comfortable shelling out $1000, then the 650 will make you smile. The Lee setup 1/5 the cost, 1/4 the speed.

Choice of press comes down to how much ammo you need to produce and the value of your time doing it. You can always go slow with a fast machine.

Well as I mentioned above someplace, I ordered a Hornady LNL AP. I plan to order for .38 spl and 45 auto, Redding "Pro Series" 3 die sets, Hornady PTX inserts for each, a Hornady powder cop, and shell plates. I still have to build the bench where it will go, so I'm not in a great hurry.

I should probably post this question in a different thread, but here goes anyways.
I'm in the process of finishing out a room by my barn which will become my gun room/gun work bench, and reloading space. The floor is poured concrete. I plan to cover over the concrete with something. I considered using some second hand industrial carpet tiles, but am thinking they might encourage static electricity. So I'm wondering if you reloading gurus have a recommendation for flooring over concrete? I also thought to use "Advantech" subflooring, and just paint that.

I think you'll find the rubber "fatigue mats" to be easier on the feet and legs. If you're worried about static electricity, you could do what I do and ground the reloading press, this prevents any buildup of static electricity in the press (and anything else on the bench). Maybe overkill but it's pretty easy to do. The floor in my shop is concrete coated with epoxy floor covering.

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Minimize the variables

Concrete coated with epoxy. That sounds good. Do you have any issues with moisure or cold on that floor in the winter? I realize the epoxy should act as a moisture barrier. How many coats of epoxy were put down?

I put down 2 coats, my concrete floor has a moisture barrier between the crushed stone layer and the concrete so moisture is not a problem. "Winter" has a somewhat different definition in Seattle, it might get below freezing 2 or 3 days a year (not complaining ) so I have no real experience with winter the way most places experience it. Picture below gives you an idea what it looks like.

Attached Images

Dillon 5.JPG (144.8 KB, 5 views)

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Minimize the variables

This is not a football game. Take you time. Learn at YOUR pace. It saves big money and perhaps disappointment in the long run. You're doing things just fine.