Interesting Brass Discoloration

jmmitc06

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Not so much a question but just an interesting thing I noticed after cleaning brass.

So prepping for my all day reloading session tomorrow I sonicated a mixture of nickel coated and brass cartridges of mixed calibers for 480 seconds in heated water in a dilute solution of phosphoric and sulfuric acid (from birchwood casey brass cleaner concentrate). After sonicating I washed the brass for 10 minutes in a colander using tap water, allowed to air dry for 30 minutes, and then heated the brass in a 200F oven for 15 minutes.

After removing it from the oven the outer surface of the brass had a brownish tint, which I like more than shiny brass for some reason, but there is a beautiful blue tint on the inside of cartidges. My hypothesis is that this is from remaining phosphoric/sulfuric acid on the inside of the cartridges that was not washed off during the heating process but I'm not sure what exactly the chemical nature of the product inside the cartridge is yet. My guess is copper phosphate or copper sulfate as both are blue but I'm not sure how to test this hypothesis save with what I have on hand. Secondly, nickel cases do not show this discoloration although nickel phosphate is green and nickel sulfate is blue.

Additionally, there are regions on the outside that are more orange than brown. Microscopic examination at 100x was unremarkable. Brass integrity is unaffected.

I just thought this was interesting so I thought I would write up. I'm really curious to determine what exactly happened, more curious to see if I can get the blue color on the outside of the cartridges consistently. It would make finding my brass at the indoor range alot easier.
 
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I would find another case cleaning solution IMO. Lemishine or citric acis works fine, cheap & non toxic. BTW, you have no idea if it's affecting the brass until you shoot it. If it is making the brass brittle, you'll start losing cases to splits sooner than later. I suspect the acids are affecting the nickel cases & doing something odd to the brass ones.
 
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I've been tumbling my brass in corncob media with a tough of rooster polish for about 30 years, and I never have a problem. Takes about 1.5 to 2 hours to get really nice and clean and ready to reload. (and I don't think my wife would stand still for me putting any reloading supplies in "her" oven).
 
its copper sulfate

As a Tool and Die maker I have been using copper sulfate for my 40 plus years in the trade. It is used for layouts when a very precise scribed line is needed on tool steel parts to be machined rather than using dykem layout ink. It is indeed "Blue". The blue crystals are crushed and mixed with either hot water or diluted muriatic acid.
When the solution is applied to the surface of the steel with a wooden tongue depressor the surface gets a thin plating of copper on it that won't rub off. The solution is also great for ridding your property of poison ivy.
By using acid to clean copper containing brass shells, you are most likely reversing the process.
 
I find that water alone works fine for cleaning ultrasonically. Water and Dawn is faster. The addition of Lemishine MAY make the cases slightly shinier, but who cares about shiny?
Heck, you can clean the cases just fine in diet cola if you want.
 
Gibekim, before reading this post at the suggestion of another chemist I did wash it off with HCl so you were right about it probably being copper sulfate. I didn't know about using copper sulfate for that sort of work that's neat.

Also, it is a commercial cartridge brass cleaner, I'm not trying to persuade anyone not to use it, it actually worked really really well.
 
Is it weird?????

As a Tool and Die maker I have been using copper sulfate for my 40 plus years in the trade. It is used for layouts when a very precise scribed line is needed on tool steel parts to be machined rather than using dykem layout ink. It is indeed "Blue". The blue crystals are crushed and mixed with either hot water or diluted muriatic acid.
When the solution is applied to the surface of the steel with a wooden tongue depressor the surface gets a thin plating of copper on it that won't rub off. The solution is also great for ridding your property of poison ivy.
By using acid to clean copper containing brass shells, you are most likely reversing the process.

Is it weird that I find this to be exciting and interesting? I've seen work in machine shops with the bluing and scribed lines. It just impresses the heck out of me. One day I'm going to build a complex that has a woodworking shop, leather shop, gunshop, machine shop and shooting range. Then I'm going to stand in the middle and just smell all of it.:)
 
Is it weird that I find this to be exciting and interesting? I've seen work in machine shops with the bluing and scribed lines. It just impresses the heck out of me. One day I'm going to build a complex that has a woodworking shop, leather shop, gunshop, machine shop and shooting range. Then I'm going to stand in the middle and just smell all of it.:)

Will you live long enough to play with all your new toys? A wood working and machine shop in a 100 yard indoor rifle range would just be over cool :eek: . Now about this exhaust fan and the air conditioning?
 
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