any reason why 38 special brass cant be cut down and used for 38 S&W, thanks

Yes, it is a smaller diameter. 38 S&W isn't just a short 38 Special, it is an entirely different round. 38 Special brass cut down and used in a 38 S&W revolver will swell up and eventually split. Look at the measurements in your reloading manual, you will see the difference.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

.38 short and long Colt are the same dia. as .38 Special. .38 S&W and .38 Colt NP is the same dia. Confusing isn't it? Larry

A book that help explains some of the the confusion is Cartridges Of The World. Interesting read with historical facts, some loading data and what cases can be used to substitute for obsolete. It was here I learned that 284 Winchester cases could be resized to 7.5 Swiss.....at the time , 1960's, no boxer primed brass was available for reloading and this information got us shooting our 1911 Schmidt-Rubin's . . 284 Win. was easy to find then.
Gary

Just buy new Starline brass from Midway @ $19 / 100 and reload it forever

I have done it. Years ago, I had so many 38 Special empty casings that I cut down a box of 50 and reloaded for 38 S&W. The .361 bullet showed a significant bulge when seated. Upon shooting, there was some blowback and the gun got dirty really fast. I reloaded that brass a half-dozen times and never had a split case, but I only load for 500 - 600 fps. After the first couple of reloads, the brass was stretched enough to eliminate blow-back.

I would not use 38 Special dies to load 38 S&W, since my findiings were that accuracy suffers. 38 Special dies will basically resize your lead bullets to .357 or less.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

cutting down 38 special brass might work as others have mentioned. I have always just bought loaded rounds and as I shot those off you can reload that brass. Ammoseek has a number of vendors that have it priced around @$22 per box.

I was given a Webley in 38/200. Had some brass but no dies or proper sized bullets. Used a 38 Special set and some 187 gr WFPGC bullets at .358 diameter. Used the start load of Unique for 200 gr bullets and moved up .1 gr at a time until it hit center at 7 yards. Dont go over max of course. The brass held up just fine, no splits. Probably due to the low pressure.

I would only use 38 Special cut down brass if I had no source for the 38 S&W brass. Might work OK with the low 38 S&W pressures.

I trim 9mm Para cases (9x19, bore.355) down to use in 9mm Makarov (9x18, bore.365). They do look weird when first loaded but once fired and formed are fine. No issue with splits or cracks, and that's with a full .01 difference in bore sizes.

I don't see why .38 Spec cases wouldn't work in the .38 S&W after trimming and run through 38 S&W dies. It's tedious work though, especiqally if commercial cases can be obtained.

It will depend on your revolver more than anything else. As others have pointed out, the .38 Special was developed from the earlier .38 Colt (short and long) while the .38 S&W was different in all dimensions. Differences are not huge, but they are measurable and significant.

We are talking about 1880's and 1890's designs and manufacturing technologies. A very wide variety of .38 S&W handguns were produced by many manufacturers, and dimensions were all over the charts. What works in one may not work in another, and some may not even work properly with factory-spec ammo.

If I were taking on a project like this (for reasons of necessity only) I would start with a box of 50 .38 Special fired cases, trim to length & chamfer, then load with modest charges and fairly heavy lead bullets, then see if those will shoot in my revolver. If so, the fire-formed cases could be reloaded in .38 S&W dies and should be usable for multiple reloads. If not I would conclude that my revolver was different enough dimensionally to preclude any further use of the altered .38 Special cases.

Hi All, I have just taken possession of a .38 S&W. I have read the comments below and wondering if anything regarding using .38 Special ammunition has changed in the last 9 years?
Regards
Woodgrub

38 Colt New Police is exactly the same diameter as 38 Smith and Wesson - it is the same round. Either of them are larger diameter than 38 S&W Special or either the Colt 38 Long or Short. You cannot make 38 S&W from any of the smaller diameter rounds.

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S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

My post is stating the same info as your post. My post is 2 sentences. Note the period after Special. .38 S&W starts a new sentence. I admit your wording is more clear than mine and I should have put more thought in my post. Larry

Are you asking if .38 Special and .38 S&W are interchangeable at all? They are not. Some of the posts in this thread indicate that .38 Special brass can be repurposed (with some difficulty and mismatch) for reloading in .38 S&W but the best solution seems to be either buying .38 S&W ammo and saving the brass, or getting new brass from a supplier like Starline.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

There is absolutely no reason that .38 Special can't be shortened to .38 S&W length and used successfully. Anyone who thinks the nominal .0065" difference in outside case diameter is significant is simply not thinking logically!!!!!

The significant measurement is case wall thickness at the mouth of the case. For .38 Special this is .012"+/-. For .38 S&W it is .013" +/-, a difference of only .001" on average. Hardly a significant amount.

Will .38 Spl. cases split because of this small difference? Maybe, but new factory .38 Spl. will sometimes split on first firing in a .38 Spl. chamber too! When this happens throw that case away.

Is shortening .38 Spl. to .38 S&W length practical? Probably not for several reasons, since new .38 S&W brass is readily available, but anyone who says it cannot be done simply isn't thinking! As long as .38 S&W dies are used for loading there will be no issues.

This is just the same as people who believe .361" bullets must be used in .38 S&W, or can't be used in .38 Special. Lead alloy bullets are very adaptable to different barrel dimensions!

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Those of us who have tried this know that 38SPL brass splits often after a single use. The diameter does matter. A great way to make single use cartridges.

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S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

I trim 9mm down for the Makarov too, but the difference here is the Luger case, being tapered, is closer to the correct diameter at its base than the .38 Special is for the .38 S&W. This seals up the breach better. It only has to fireform the forward portion of the luger case. Since the breech is sealed better it will fireform easily. The Makarov is basically a straight wall 9mm Luger.

If I recall correctly, you can make a rimmed case for 9mm revolvers from .38 S&W. Which was the problem with the short-lived 9mm Federal. It would chamber in .38 S&W revolvers but was way over pressure.

If there was enough room for a half-moon clip on your revolver you might be able to go that way. The 9mm case is shorter, but if you could get it to headspace you could still make that work.

I made rimmed .380 cases out of .38 Special cases for a little Taurus .380 revolver. But the .380 is a straight wall case the same diameter as the mouth of the 9mm. They head spaced because Taurus cut the cylinders the same as their .38 Special guns.

1. Absolutely, .38 Special cases can be shortened for use in a .38 S&W revolver. I have done it, but it is a lot of work.

2. .38 Short Colt ammunition and cases can be used in .38 S&W chambers. I have done that also. .38 SC is essentially a shorter cased .38 Special. Not too easy to find today, but it can be found. And of course, .38 SC works fine in .38 Special and .357 revolvers. The .38 SC deserves to be better known than it is, a useful cartridge, especially in .38 Special snubbies. They extract better.

After the first firing the cases will be fire formed to .38 S&W dimensions and can be reloaded using .38 S&W or .38 Super dies. I use the latter.

I agree with Alk8944.
I know for a fact that new Remington 38 S&W cartridges will chamber in 38 Spcl and 357 chambers. Tried it and it worked in all of my K and N frame revolvers. Out of 6 different revolvers, ranging in age from the early 1920s to the 1980s, only one chamber was "snug". But all accepted the new Remington 38 S&W ammo. None of this apparently undersized 38 S&W ammo split when fired in a variety of my 38 S&W revolvers, whether a top break or HE. However, this was not true with vintage S&W ammo. They would often not chamber in the 38/357 cylinders.
Can you make usable 38 S&W cases out of 38 Special... yes. Will all of them split... no. And annealing modified cases beforehand will reduce the rate of failure considerably.
I've seen 50-70 cases made from 348 Winchester, a common thing done before 50-70 became available again.They showed a much larger bulge at the base after forming than possible with a 38 Special case would if converted to 38 S&W. Yet those modified 348 cases worked reliably without splitting. Annealing is key step in any case forming.
But, of course, all this is a moot point as 38 S&W isn't impossible to find.

John

Have you shot this caliber? No one said that 38 Special brass cannot be used, but the first couple of times they are shot issues do arise. First, as I stated before is that shooting them the first couple times makes your revolver incredibly dirty from blow-back. Second, yes some brass will split, but in the past I had so much that it did not matter much. Third, the first couple loadings expanded the brass, but also compressed the lead bullet, making the round less accurate. Last, DO NOT USE 38 Special dies as they can reduce your lead to .357, which will basically allow the bullet to rattle down the barrel of a 38 S&W. Do it right - buy both 38 S&W brass and dies.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

...and why would anyone want to would be my question.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Nothing has changed in the last 100+ years, let alone 9!

Here's the answer: 38 S&W Brass - Small Pistol - Brass Cases

Much less hassle than modifying .38 Special . . . .

This thread is perfect example of why theoretical experience and actual wisdom can definitely be two different things.

Yes!!!! I have been loading both .38 Special and .38 S&W for nearly 60 years!!!!!

And if YOU will read the early posts there is definitely an implication in more than one of them that this cannot be done because of dimensional differences in the cases.

AND, if you will read the immediately preceding post from 455 hunter you will find a perfect explanation of why so many posts on the forum are such BS!

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Remington loads it. Reduced case volume makes it perfect for cowboy shooter loads.

Smith and Wesson added to the confusion when they introduced their .38 S&W Special cartridge. They did not make "their" .38 S&W longer like their did with the .32 S&W. Instead they made a longer and marginally more potent version of the .38 Long Colt (US Service CTG) that the Army was using in the Model 1892 series of revolvers at the time.

Early M&P revolvers were marked ".38 S&W Special or US Service Ctg"

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The idea behind the .38 Special was to “Magnumize” the .38 Long Colt by elongating the case. That was because black powder was used then, and the only way to burn more of it was to provide more case volume, as BP filled the case. But smokeless powder was in its infancy when the .38 Special appeared. There would have been no need for the .38 Special had smokeless powder been in wide use in the 1890s. For some unknown reason, .38 Special ammunition using BP was still being loaded into the early 1930s. As I have mentioned multiple times, it is simple to handload .38 S&W ammunition to produce .38 Special performance, at least in newer solid frame revolvers. So can .38 LC.

For a long time, I have formed .303 Savage cases from .30-30 brass. Even though the case base diameter of the .30-30 case is noticeably less than that of the .303, I have never experienced a .30-30 reformed case failure when fired in a .303 rifle.

Regarding use of .38 S&W in .38 Special/.357 chambers, that is indeed sometimes possible due to tolerance overlaps between cartridge and chamber dimensions. You just have to try it to find out. I have noticed the same for using .38 Super in .38/.357 revolvers. Some brands of .38 Super ammunition will fit and fire in some .38/.357 chambers, and some will not. You just have to try and see.

..to make Arisaka brass from 30-06. I didn't need 100 cases. It takes a few operations but after fire forming they work just fine.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Buy .38 S&W brass from Starline or buy .38 S&W ammo and save the empties.

I've never had new .38 special cases split in a .38 Special. Only after they were reloaded several times. Usually a tiny mouth split. Much less often a case split.

Might I suggest that possibly annealing the .38 Special cases after they were trimmed down could prevent splitting. I have annealed rifle cases but have no experience with pistol rounds, but if it doesn't weaken the case...

I have made 7.7mm Arisaka cases from 30-06 brass and it works just fine.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"