Case Rupturing in 9MM Cases Causes Kaboom?

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kbm6893

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Fairly new to relosding. Started with 38 and have moved on to 9MM. With my 38's a couple of my cases developed tiny splits. I didn't notice them until I got the brass home but I do remember some rounds had more of a blast. No damage to gun at all. Some of the brass I was using had been reloaded before and the stamps on them were definitly reloads since they weren't the factory stamps I am used to buying. 95% of the brass I started with was once fired, but I do recall buying reloads a few times over the years. I now have definite once fired brass (off the PD range) so I'm gonna segregate the original brass I loaded and just use the newer stuff for now so I know how many times they are loaded.

I am extremely careful when I reload. No chance EVER of a double charge. I weigh evey charge and have color coded loading blocks for each stage of the process. I load in 100 round batches on a single stage press. No rush.

So can a case rupture cause a kaboom? I load mild. Just enough to cycle the gun. Just punching paper. The cracks in the 38 cases did not damage the gun, but polymer 9MM are not steel cylinders of a revolver. I load light, COL is within specs, and a crimp in a seperate process. I've loaded up about 500 9MM. Fired about 50 of them. They are the Hornady XTP 115 grain hollow point I got free with the press. They're too nice to shoot at paper so I'm hanging onto them for now. I just got 1000 Xtreme 124 grain round nose and loaded 50 of different weights. I'm gonna shoot them this week to see which ones will cycle the weapon. I am sure they all will. I'm using 7625 and the recipe calls for 4.3 to 4.9 grains. I'm going 4.4 to 4.7. If the 4.4 work in my 3 guns, a Beretta 92, Ruger SR9, and Ruger LC9-S, I'll stick to 4.4 or no higher than 4.5.
 
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kbm6893 said:
...........

So can a case rupture cause a kaboom? I load mild. Just enough to cycle the gun. Just punching paper. .............
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The correct powder charge will rupture a brittle 9 MM that has been reloaded many times. It is not a big deal, no damage to the fire arm, and the only indication will be an ammo jam when the empty fails to eject.

An over powder charge will rupture a good case, even a new one. There may be damage to the magazine or the handgun. In the late 1990's there was a huge shipment of surplus 9mm military ammo that was sold quite cheap. It was "One shot" ammo that had brisk recoil, flat primers, and could not be reloaded because of stretched primer pockets -- new primes fell out of the case when the bullet was seated.

I had 40 S&W range pickup brass fired in a Glock that ruptured when reloads were fired. Other brass in that ammo lot I reloaded fired safely with no problems. I sorted through 300+ rounds of ammo, removed all the offending head stamp brass, and fired it 1 round at a time without the magazine in the gun. Every case ruptured. I loaded the "Glock bulge" at 12 0'clock in the chamber, and the case still ruptured. When the first case ruptured, the mag body remained in the gun but the end of the mag (plastic), mag spring, other loaded rounds, and mag follower all landed on the floor. It was a stainless steel style 1911 with a bull barrel and no barrel bushing.

All my handgun ammo is loaded on a Dillon 550. I don't weigh powder charges after the powder measure is set. I throw 5 charges and weigh them in total, not 5 individual charges. Total weight = 22.5 grains means my powder charge is 4.5 ± 0.1 grains. I too don't load max charges.
 
First, SR7625 is EXTREMELY position sensitive in the 38 Special. I learned this lesson first hand and consider myself lucky I didn't squib the barrel on my model 67. BTW, I was using a 125 grain Extreme plated bullet and with the barrel pointed up prior to firing the produced velocity was 700 fps., with the barrel pointed down the produced velocity was only 400 fps. With a muzzle velocity of only 400 fps with a plated bullet the risk of a squib is rather high due to the increases friction of a plated bullet when compared to a plain lead bullet. If you have already loaded up some 38 special loads with SR7625 make sure to point the barrel straight up, tap the cylinder lightly, and level the revolver slowly before firing each shot. Or just pull the bullets and use a different powder to reload them.

Second, small splits happen with reloaded cases and I've never come to any harm when they split, even with 223 Remington Rifle cases that split the neck during live fire. The opening of almost any case is the area that gets Cold Worked the most and because if this it's this area that work hardens the most and then splits. When it happens the thing to do is obvious, throw it in the recycle bin to go to the metal recycler.

Third, SR7625 is NOT at all Position Sensitive in shallow Semi Auto Cases such as the 9mm, 40 S&W, or 45 ACP, so no need to be concerned about Position Sensitivity in these calibers. I use a lot of it in my 40 S&W and 45 ACP target loads. It's clean shooting, accurate, meters wonderfully, and produces less muzzle flip than loads featuring Unique. About the only negative for Semi Auto use is that it's been discontinued.
 
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scooter123 said:
First, SR7625 is EXTREMELY position sensitive in the 38 Special. I learned this lesson first hand and consider myself lucky I didn't squib the barrel on my model 67. BTW, I was using a 125 grain Extreme plated bullet and with the barrel pointed up prior to firing the produced velocity was 700 fps., with the barrel pointed down the produced velocity was only 400 fps. With a muzzle velocity of only 400 fps with a plated bullet the risk of a squib is rather high due to the increases friction of a plated bullet when compared to a plain lead bullet. If you have already loaded up some 38 special loads with SR7625 make sure to point the barrel straight up, tap the cylinder lightly, and level the revolver slowly before firing each shot. Or just pull the bullets and use a different powder to reload them.

Second, small splits happen with reloaded cases and I've never come to any harm when they split, even with 223 Remington Rifle cases that split the neck during live fire. The opening of almost any case is the area that gets Cold Worked the most and because if this it's this area that work hardens the most and then splits. When it happens the thing to do is obvious, throw it in the recycle bin to go to the metal recycler.

Third, SR7625 is NOT at all Position Sensitive in shallow Semi Auto Cases such as the 9mm, 40 S&W, or 45 ACP, so no need to be concerned about Position Sensitivity in these calibers. I use a lot of it in my 40 S&W and 45 ACP target loads. It's clean shooting, accurate, meters wonderfully, and produces less muzzle flip than loads featuring Unique. About the only negative for Semi Auto use is that it's been discontinued.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I saw your response about 7625 when I started reloading last year. I don't use 7625 in 38. I use red dot cause that's what they had. I'll use it till its gone and then go to HP38 I got. Red dot is fine, it just doesn't meter well. 7625 meters great. Right to the grain every time. I still weigh every charge. I'm just OCD when it come to that.

I'm not worried about over charges. Have the data for the bullet tacked right to my bench. Zero the scale before every session and weigh charge. Confirm by looking at data on bench. Slow, I guess. But I reload 100 bullets in about 45 minutes. I don't shoot that often so I build up a nice stash.
 
I have seen a 9mm Kel-Tec carbine that fired significantly out of battery. The case was cut cleanly into two pieces at the head, as if a torch had been used. The carbine was damaged badly enough that it would not function, though it was not "blown to smithereens." Kel-Tec did replace it.

Dave Sinko
 
Short answer to your question as there is a lot in there.;)

Can a case rupture in a 9mm cause a Kboom?

If the powder charge is so high that is causes a case to rupture than yes it can.

I do not think that is what you are asking though.

If you load a old case that is brittle or weak with a normal powder charge and it cracks like your 38 specials did, then no, it is not likely that you barrel will go kboom:D

As in a revolver were the cylinder holds the pressure, the barrel in a semi auto will hold a lot of pressure (not as much as a revolver) but enough if you have a normal charge,

Now if you double charge or use the wrong powder or the round fires out of battery or if the chamber is unsupported or if the then moon is in the wrong phase or the planets not aligned or this or that etc, etc then who knows:D

Don't worry, be happy, reload like you are doing, use good brass and all will be fine.;)
 
kbm6893 said:
...........The cracks in the 38 cases did not damage the gun, but polymer 9MM are not steel cylinders of a revolver.............
Click to expand...

Polymer 9mm still have a steel barrel and slide. Splits in a case will not damage a M&P, but it could have an adverse affect on cycling the round. I reload cases multiple times, I throw them away when they split but I usually lose them before that.
 
My phrasing was wrong. I know a double charge can kaboom a gun. Same with wrong powder. But I'm super careful about that so I'm not worried. Was just wondering if a split case could do it. Like in a revolver, I guess the barrel and slide contain the pressure. Good to know.
 
In my experience if the powder charger is safe and there is a case rupture, the amount of damage depends on where it ruptures. If you have a split down the side in rifles or pistol cartridges, you might not even notice any thing was wrong until you find it when you are inspecting your empties for reloading. If you have a pierced primer or head rupture or separation, then you are going to have some damage even if the load is well within safe limits.
 
Too light a charge can be as bad as a double charge with some powders............

One reason fort starting loads.

Powder should burn at the back and work forward........
if the primer flame goes across the top of all the powder instead, it will produce high pressures.

Another reason I used 2x FULL load cases for only target or light loads. I have had a 3x 357 full load cut all the way around the case and have a top and bottom part of the case in the cylinder.

My 9mm cases usually get all scratched up or too battered to use, before they split........ I also use the 2x full load system with the 9mm.

Good shooting.
 
Many firings and re-sizing make the brass brittle and that's what causes the cases to split. There is a finite number of times brass can be resized, usually more with lighter loads. I don't know about 9mm, but I've read of a test on 38 specials where they gave up after 230 re-loadings. Decision was when it splits throw it away.
 
Nevada Ed said:
Too light a charge can be as bad as a double charge with some powders............

One reason fort starting loads.

Powder should burn at the back and work forward........
if the primer flame goes across the top of all the powder instead, it will produce high pressures.

Another reason I used 2x FULL load cases for only target or light loads. I have had a 3x 357 full load cut all the way around the case and have a top and bottom part of the case in the cylinder.

My 9mm cases usually get all scratched up or too battered to use, before they split........ I also use the 2x full load system with the 9mm.

Good shooting.
Click to expand...

I don't understand. What is the 2X or 3X full load system?

As for light loads, I generally load middle of the recipe. The recipe for 7625 goes from 4.3 to 4.9. I have 12 rounds each of 4.4-4.7. I'll load 4 rounds of each weight in each of the 3 guns to check for function. If all work, and I suspect they will, I'll probably settle on 4.5 grains for the rest of the loaded rounds. This way is the scale reads a hair high or low it's still in the recipe range.
 
This makes me wonder....

kbm6893 said:
Fairly new to relosding. Started with 38 and have moved on to 9MM. With my 38's a couple of my cases developed tiny splits.

Tiny splits in the mouth of the case are common. You can reload them but toss the case if it gets any worse. If you work the brass too much in flaring, it fatigues the metal at the mouth of the case more.


I didn't notice them until I got the brass home but I do remember some rounds had more of a blast.

@@@ This makes me wonder. Were there different loads or did some of the same batch have a more noticeable blast? If they were from the same batch, something isn't right.


No damage to gun at all. Some of the brass I was using had been reloaded before and the stamps on them were definitely reloads since they weren't the factory stamps

Once brass is made and stamped, the headstamp never changes. Some one shot brass may have markings that are not a recognizable manufacturer and some just have small 'marks', not readable letters.

I am used to buying. 95% of the brass I started with was once fired, but I do recall buying reloads a few times over the years. I now have definite once fired brass (off the PD range) so I'm gonna segregate the original brass I loaded and just use the newer stuff for now so I know how many times they are loaded.

That sounds like a plan.

I am extremely careful when I reload. No chance EVER of a double charge. I weigh evey charge and have color coded loading blocks for each stage of the process. I load in 100 round batches on a single stage press. No rush.

So can a case rupture cause a kaboom?

An actual case rupture, i.e. failure between the bullet and the cartridge head CAN be a big problem with higher loaded cartridges to the point of gun damage or worse. This is especially true if a case goes off that is not fully supported. Some older guns are bad about this

I load mild. Just enough to cycle the gun. Just punching paper. The cracks in the 38 cases did not damage the gun, but polymer 9MM are not steel cylinders of a revolver.

@@@ The metal chamber of your plastic pistol is as strong as a revolver. In fact semi auto chambers are often designed to higher pressure than a revolver is rated for.


I load light, COL is within specs, and a crimp in a seperate process. I've loaded up about 500 9MM. Fired about 50 of them. They are the Hornady XTP 115 grain hollow point I got free with the press. They're too nice to shoot at paper so I'm hanging onto them for now. I just got 1000 Xtreme 124 grain round nose and loaded 50 of different weights.

@@@ I like semi wadcutters. They make a nice sharp hole


I'm gonna shoot them this week to see which ones will cycle the weapon. I am sure they all will. I'm using 7625 and the recipe calls for 4.3 to 4.9 grains. I'm going 4.4 to 4.7. If the 4.4 work in my 3 guns, a Beretta 92, Ruger SR9, and Ruger LC9-S, I'll stick to 4.4 or no higher than 4.5.

@@@ You shouldn't have a problem with those loads. As long as the gun cycles, you are good. I've made some target loads that are well below the recommended load. They aren't anywhere close to sticking in the barrel and can still reduce it more. A lighter spring on your gun will allow less powerful rounds to work, too.
Click to expand...

I gotta type 10 characters here.
 
KMB,

Let me try again to make this easy, as the thread has gone sideways.

If you load a case (good brass)exceeding the correct amount of powder or seat a bullet to deep and excessive pressure is built, Than that will rupture a case and case a kaboom

Now if you load a piece of brasss that is old and brittle and it cracks under less than max pressure you will just a squib, weak shot and probably fail to cycle the gun

If you load a case that has a crack and do not see it, you will have no neck tension from the bullet so no real pressure will build and it will kinda fizzle out.

The only brass I ever had a crack in was some old nickel 357 mags. I had one case head seperate on a 223 round. Never had a crack in 9mm, 40 or 45 and my brass has been loaded many many times.

Kabooms are usally overcharged loads or fired out of battery not due to a case crack alone.

That is why, say Titegroup (or any FAST powder) and say the 40 SW in a unsupported chamber can be a problem. A over charge of a real fast dense powder, builds pressure very fast and blows out the lower part of the case that is not supported.
 
Just an isolated unintended experiment with a case split wide open and zero damage to an M&P 9mm:
Somehow a .380 case got in with the 9mm, and the Dillon did not hiccup loading it with a PF 130 124gr FMJ.
I took it to the practice range, loaded it in a magazine, and fired the full magazine at steel plates. Did not notice anything abnormal. I found the still-warm .380 case on the ground, case split wide open like a tulip, my WIN SP primer fired in it. Gun functioned normally, absolutely no hint of any problem.

This experience supports the suspicion that KABOOMS are the result of overloads.
 
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