Crinkled Cases

[Alk8944]

For consistent crimps the brass must be kept within .005", about 1/2 the mouth thickness, of the case mouth, so not much, for length. That said it is rarely necessary to trim handgun brass, but it must at least be checked before the first loading and trimmed if necessary. This is most important if you are loading mixed brands without segregating them.

What I cannot understand is how, if you have been re-loading for 50 years as you say you have, that you still have not learned how to do it right, and use correct terminology without even giving it a thought.

 

[AJ]

What I cannot understand is how, if you have been re-loading for 50 years as you say you have, that you still have not learned how to do it right, and use correct terminology without even giving it a thought.

Yes I have been reloading as long as I say I have. It was never an issue until just recently. I have adjusted the dies out a bit more. But every once in a while I get a crinkle. Several friends that reload think as I do. Some of the cases are getting long in the tooth. I do not count the times that they have been reloaded. Usually only throw them away when I spot a cracked lip, split case or some other abnormality. Pretty sure some have stretched over the years and as I do not trim cases (handgun), the ugly head of that is rearing up.

I started reloading with a Lyman 31 Tool for about 2 years before I was able to afford a Lyman Spar-T Press. That is when I started keeping records.

 

[taz666]

I am mostly loading 148 Grain DEWC's for .38 Special.

So the crimp is over the top or in the first groove down?


Sounds like your crimping too heavy if you're in a groove. All that's needed is enough crimp to make contact with the bottom of the crimp groove.


If you're over the top of the WC in the 38's ... I don't know what to tell you. Case length here should not matter. Even in the groove, case lengths can vary .010" in length before it becomes an issue with handgun ammo.

 

[BC38]

Crinkled cases can be avoided by separating the seating and crimping stages, especially for revolver and rifle ammunition. Crimping while seating leads to a bulge at the crimp, even if no buckling occurs.

This is what has always worked well for me.
It adds a step, but, for me, it also results in very consistent reloads.
I also crimp "by feel" as previously described,
So far I've only ever buckled one or two cases.

 

[Alk8944]

Yes I have been reloading as long as I say I have. It was never an issue until just recently. I have adjusted the dies out a bit more. But every once in a while I get a crinkle. Several friends that reload think as I do. Some of the cases are getting long in the tooth. I do not count the times that they have been reloaded. Usually only throw them away when I spot a cracked lip, split case or some other abnormality. Pretty sure some have stretched over the years and as I do not trim cases (handgun), the ugly head of that is rearing up.

I started reloading with a Lyman 31 Tool for about 2 years before I was able to afford a Lyman Spar-T Press. That is when I started keeping records.

I guess then the next question is how long you have had the brass? Is some of it range pick-ups, or are the cases you have problems with the same brand? I literally have .38 Spl. brass that I have been shooting with for over the 50 years you have been re-loading. They crack, they get thrown away, but I have never had an issue with any growing in length and resulting in crimping issues. Straight wall cases shorten if anything as a result of firing and sizing.

I had a windfall in 1969 and found two buckets full of several thousand fired .38 cases. I have been re-loading since about 1958, and have loaded over 100 different calibers if it makes any difference.

As others said, secondary sizing causes problems, especially with lead bullets. Even the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die will result in the bullet being reduced inside the case and being loose.

If you feel the need to do an additional operation on your loads then buy a separate crimp die and seat/crimp in two separate operations. Almost everyone I know who shoot cast bullets have realized this is the best way to do it, and is what is recommended by most sources giving cast/swaged lead bullet loading information.

 

[AJ]

So the crimp is over the top or in the first groove down?


Sounds like your crimping too heavy if you're in a groove. All that's needed is enough crimp to make contact with the bottom of the crimp groove.


If you're over the top of the WC in the 38's ... I don't know what to tell you. Case length here should not matter. Even in the groove, case lengths can vary .010" in length before it becomes an issue with handgun ammo.

Over the top. Most are for my 52. Some get fired in a Behlert PPC and some in my 27-2. I really think it is because I don't trim handgun brass. Before I bought my 52, never had any problems.

 

[AJ]

I guess then the next question is how long you have had the brass? Is some of it range pick-ups, or are the cases you have problems with the same brand? I literally have .38 Spl. brass that I have been shooting with for over the 50 years you have been re-loading. They crack, they get thrown away, but I have never had an issue with any growing in length and resulting in crimping issues. Straight wall cases shorten if anything as a result of firing and sizing.

I had a windfall in 1969 and found two buckets full of several thousand fired .38 cases. I have been re-loading since about 1958, and have loaded over 100 different calibers if it makes any difference.

As others said, secondary sizing causes problems, especially with lead bullets. Even the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die will result in the bullet being reduced inside the case and being loose.

If you feel the need to do an additional operation on your loads then buy a separate crimp die and seat/crimp in two separate operations. Almost everyone I know who shoot cast bullets have realized this is the best way to do it, and is what is recommended by most sources giving cast/swaged lead bullet loading information.

Some of the brass maybe from when I first started reloading. I just keep reloading it, until it splits or cracks. Have thrown a lot of cases out over the years due to cracking/splitting, but who knows how old some is.....? I do not keep records of case use.

I have some .45 ACP Brass that I have reloaded from WW I. Got a bunch of cartridges from a widow of a accumulator. A few from almost every year of .45 ACP production. Shot them just to see if they would go bang. They did, and I mixed them in with my other .45 ACP brass.

 

[taz666]

Over the top. Most are for my 52. Some get fired in a Behlert PPC and some in my 27-2. I really think it is because I don't trim handgun brass. Before I bought my 52, never had any problems.

When you first stated that you didn't size the cases that's what you actually meant wasn't it? I've heard of people doing this with "as cast" lead bullets .360"+. This technique actually stems back to factory loaded "black powder" ammo as I understand it. Keeps the soft lead from being squeezed into the case. If the bullet stays put, go for it. ... but why you're having issues crimping the mouths over is a puzzle for sure. Case length shouldn't be an issue unless we're talking over .015" or so. Hard to believe your cases vary this much. I'd still try a lighter crimp or match up a factory round to your reloads.


(put the factory round in your press and adjust the die down to the case .. lock it down and try crimping one of your reloads)

 

[BC38]

...As others said, secondary sizing causes problems, especially with lead bullets. Even the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die will result in the bullet being reduced inside the case and being loose....

That hasn't been my experience. I use the FCD in every caliber I can get one for and I've never seen a "loose" bullet - even in 9mm and 45ACP.

 

[AJ]

When you first stated that you didn't size the cases that's what you actually meant wasn't it? I've heard of people doing this with "as cast" lead bullets .360"+. This technique actually stems back to factory loaded "black powder" ammo as I understand it. Keeps the soft lead from being squeezed into the case. If the bullet stays put, go for it. ... but why you're having issues crimping the mouths over is a puzzle for sure. Case length shouldn't be an issue unless we're talking over .015" or so. Hard to believe your cases vary this much. I'd still try a lighter crimp or match up a factory round to your reloads.


(put the factory round in your press and adjust the die down to the case .. lock it down and try crimping one of your reloads)

No Sir, I made a Faux Pas I have always sized my brass. I just do not trim handgun brass.

 

[venomballistics]

I have on occasion like 3 or 4 times. But and a big but! Don’t do it to rounds that are loaded near maximum pressure. Because you just super crimped your bullet and it’s now under sized due to the resizing.

I've done this to pull down a batch of revolver ammo.
The "super crimped" condition is not what happens in this process.
Brass springs back from any mechanical work applied.
If it didn't, a functioning auto design would have been impossible as it's a trait required for ejection.
Lead of the bullet, on the other hand, does not have this trait.
When we cram it into the sizing die, everything conforms to it.
When removed from the die, the bullet remains undersized and the brass springs back, releasing it.

 

[gym cat]

Would like to see a picture of your crinkled brass

Thanks in advance

 

[taz666]

No Sir, I made a Faux Pas I have always sized my brass. I just do not trim handgun brass.

Fair enough but not sizing for as cast bullets, esp. WC's, isn't as odd as some may think.

 

[AJ]

Fair enough but not sizing for as cast bullets, esp. WC's, isn't as odd as some may think.

Have been told that a long time ago. Had been told if you are using them in the same gun then sizing wasn't really needed. Sort of like neck sizing rifle cases that are to be fired in the same rifle. Have never tried it, though.

 

[AJ]

Would like to see a picture of your crinkled brass

Thanks in advance

Will have to wait until it happens again. When I get one the next step for me is to run it through my sizing die that I have taken the decapping pin out of it. Will post when I do and send you a PM if that is alright with you.