Tite Group and cast bullets

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growr

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I was given a pound of Tite Group and wanted to use it for .40 S&W with a Lee cast 175 bullet.....loaded it at 4.5 grains and the bullets are tumbling...will back it off some to 3.5 and 4.0 grains and see what happens there. They chronographed at 925-950 fps...

Seems as though I have read that tite group is not a good cast bullet propellant....what say you fellow reloaders? I have used 5 gr. of Unique and this bullet with no issues.

Randy
 
I do not know about it's use with lead but I would not use it in a high pressure round like the 40 SW. For lead 38 special perhaps.
Some do. I think it is to fast a powder for the 9mm or 40SW.
JMHO
 
I believe your bullets tumbling likely have nothing to do with the use of TiteGroup powder alone. It could be the charge weight. Too much pressure for the lead alloy. Maybe the Unique load had less pressure. Try reducing the TiteGroup charge and see.

Sometimes application of too much taper crimp will swage a cast bullet down a few thousandths. This can cause tumbling also. Did you change the crimp?

TiteGroup is a good powder for the .40 S&W. It does have a reputation of having a higher flame temperature than many other powders. Irregardless it still is a good performer.
 
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Nothing wrong with Titegroup I used it in 9mm and 40S&W till I run out and can't find more. Had to switch to CFE Pistol and haven't got the loads like I want them yet. I tight of crimp and plated tumble also.
 
Well Hodgdon, Lyman cast, Speer and Hornady do not list data for TG and a lead bullet. Wonder why?

Any Kboom I have read about involved TG and usually a 40 SW and Glock but besides that nothing wrong with it.;)

If it is the only powder you have then ya gotta do what ya gotta do.:)
 
Thanks for the help everyone!

The crimp is the same as for my JHP's...I will reduce the powder to 3.5 and see what it chrono's...If it still tumbles, I will go back to Unique for cast and use the TiteGroup for jacketed bullets.

I now have 10 lbs of Unique and only the remainder of the TG...

The experimentation is still part of the fun isn't it? My favorite powder for the .40 has been AA #5...which still seems to be in the unobtainium class here in Montana!


Randy
 
TG is probably one of the worst powders for conventional lead bullets IMO. It just burns too hot. You may get a load that shoots, but it is likely & lead & certainly smoke like black powder.
Is it he TL design? Many have accuracy issues with them. I doubt running it lower will help. Pull a bullet after seating & crimping, measure it. You may be over crimping. If you use the LFCD, stop, that can also be resizing your lead bullet. IMO, if you can't get a lead bullet to shoot with Unique, your gun doesn't like lead bullets.
 
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Tight Group is definately a love it or hate it type of powder. I use it in .38 and .44 Special with cast bullets. Excellent accuracy and no leading issues in either. I haven't chronographed the .38's but the .44s are averaging 820 fps with 4.9 gn pushing a 200 gn rnfp.
 
I use TG in 9mm & 40 S&W with good results; however that is with plated bullets, not cast lead. Just loaded 50 rounds in 40 S&W for the range tomorrow. 4.5 grs. with either a 165 or 180 gr. X-treme plated FP bullet with COL @ 1.125".
 
I used TG & cast 38/45acp for years with no problems and fine accuracy.

Haven't used it much with 9 or 40.

Have since run out & it seems nowhere to be found in this quadrant.
 
I use Tite Group with cast bullets in 9mm, 40S&W, 45acp. and .357. I have no issues at all having fired many THOUSANDS of rounds. Not sure why you are having problems but would be surprised to find the TG had anything to do with it. Some reloaders are afraid that they will do an accidental double charge with TG so anytime the subject comes up they immediatly blame it for everything from the Black Death to the poor economy. TG has been my go to powder for a few years now and I have no issues with it at all. With 40S&W my favorite load is 4.5gr of TG with a 180gr cast or plated HP bullet. No tumbling at all and good groups at a measured 20 yards.
 
Bought a pound of Tite Group the other day to try because Clays has been hard to find. For 38 special the Lyman pistol loading manual suggests 2.9 to 3.6 grains for a 158 or 160 grain cast bullet. The Hodgdon Powder can lists 3.8 grains for a 158 grain LSWC. I know....start low and work up...but I'm wondering has anyone worked up a load with Tite Group that would make Minor PF using a 4 inch barreled revolver.
 
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The OP is posting about 40 SW.


I gather you are loading 38 Special?? Not much room to vary based on Hodgdons data with a min of 3.2 and a max of 3.8.

You would better of starting another thread. Your PF will depend on "your" gun and chronograph your loads.
 
Seems as though I have read that tite group is not a good cast bullet propellant....what say you fellow reloaders? I have used 5 gr. of Unique and this bullet with no issues.
Click to expand...
One of the oddities I've noticed with cast bullets and different powders is that the faster-burning powders are more demanding of the bullet alloy. In other words, if you're having trouble with a certain alloy, it often can be made to shoot by using a slower powder. First noticed it with WIN231 and WIN296, of all things. The same bullet would lead with WIN231 but not with WIN296, even though final MV was higher with 296.
Noticed with a fairly soft .45ACP bullet that Titegroup caused problems that did not show with unique.
Can't prove it, but I suspect the relevant ballistic parameter is the maximum G-force applied to the bullet during the acceleration. Since the bullet is most susceptible during the initial acceleration, I suspect a relatively soft TL bullet (with weak ridges) gets hit like a sledgehammer by Titegroup and skids on the rifling.
Anyway, your load is way hot, so going to a lighter charge might cure it, but a slower powder most certainly will.
Titegroup is my usual powder in 9mm and .40, but not for TL bullets and medium to soft lead alloy.
 
I use cast bullets with TG in 38, 380, 38+P 40, 45acp, 45 Colt and 44spl. I have tried using the published data for the magnums but I'm kinda squeamish with anything north of 1000.

My full power 40 is 175 cast with 4.5 TG at 965fps.
I use the 175 with 3.2 for IDPA and it functions perfectly too.

I consider it a very handy, go to, general purpose, jack of most trades, powder and have to roll my eyes when the know it all's tell you it is going to make the tires on your truck melt off if you use it. Most of them tell you to use Bullseye instead, what's the difference?
 
Gotta agree with roundgunner. Bullseye has been a go to powder for many shooters for years and is highly regarded. Titegroup many will tell you is just too fast. And yet Bullseye is a faster powder than Titegroup, although just barely. TG will not get the same velocities as H110 but it is far better suited to upper midrange loads and for me has always proven very well suited to cast bullet loads. When you're shooting the center out of your target on a consistant basis it's hard to complain. Getting better than 1400 loads from a pound of powder is also hard to complain about. Yes a double charge can wreck havoc with your pistol but so will a double charge of anything. However, if someone is a sloppy, easily distracted, or just careless reloader than another brand of powder (or better yet, factory ammo) might better suit them.
 
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