Hi guys,
My super accurate target .357 load is chewing up my forcing cones. This was probably after around 3000 or 4000 rounds on my 627 with the following load.
-- 125 grain JHP bullet
-- 5.0 Titegroup
-- 1.590 COL



So, to prevent further damage I'm switching over to HP38 and I tested out some 38 special loads today.



Here's the data from the manuals:


And the results:









I changed guns and tested some of the above loads that did well in the first round.



Thoughts:
I was shooting iron sights (fiber optic .110 wide) so accuracy would be off a little compared to using a red dot.

I'm looking for a load that will be accurate in multiple revolvers.
I have a case of Montana Gold 125 JHP and a case of their 158 JHP so those are my priority. The 158s seem more accurate at different charges...I should have no problem there.

The 125 JHP with 4.3 gr of HP38 might turn out to be an accurate / soft shooting load.

Take a look at the flyer on Target 4 in the top right. Any thoughts on that? I don't think I pulled it. Ahh, more testing.

The coated Bayou Bullets didn't do as well as I hoped. It's not Bayou that is the problem...I've tried other lead bullets and these revolvers seem to do better with JHP bullets.

Happy shooting!

Dave

I'm using WIN 231 (same as HP38) and ZERO 158gn JHP bullet. THe most accurate load and the one I settled on with this bullet/powder was 4.3 gn's with a COAL 1.450.

Yikes! That's a shame about the forcing cone. I guess Titegroup & 125gr JHP don't go together?

I quit loading 38 Specials cases (I have a bucket of them too) for my 357's & have gone to plated bullets as my 686-6 & PC627-5 liked to lead at the forcing cone, so I can't help you there, but they both do best (both 5") with jacketed bullets too. I used some 158gr JSP Zeros & really liked them, especially for the price, but they've been hard to find in-stock (just scored 1000 of their .45 230gr JHP bullets, finally!) so have adopted Xtreme's plated 158gr TCFN bullet for now.

My HP-38 loads in the 357 cases are about 1gr. more than yours so I can't compare them.

That (low) flyer might have been because of a light load, if you used a drop powder dispenser & didn't weigh each one separately & top them off with a trickler?

.

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Waiting for the break of day

I'm having trouble expressing how this works, but there is something about the length of bullets 125 grain and less not being able to cover the cylinder gap before it actually engages the forcing cone and rifling. Can somebody help me out here? Anyway the answer might be to use heavier bullets.

JHPs are fun to shoot, but I find them too expensive to use for target rounds so I use either soft swaged HBWCs or semi wadcutters, or cast bullets as long as they match the barrel in the 148 and 158 weight range. I can shoot more and longer with lead bullets driven at lower velocities.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Get your bore, chambers and throats surgically clean, then load up some 158gr. LSWCs @ about 900-1000 fps. You may be pleasantly surprised.
If you're not stuck with HP38 and Titegroup, try 11-12gr. 2400 in .38 brass under those SWCs. That's close to the old .38-44 HV load, makes around 1100fps, and works real well for me.

Larry

For my model 19's I use a .38 Special case, six grains of Unique, standard SP primer and a cast 158gr LSWC. I do however label these for use in .357 Magnums only, it's a bit stout I think for use in .38 Special revolvers. They shoot very well in most all of my K and N frame .357 Mag revolvers.

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Stay safe people!

You don't say if the gun was bought new or used! The load you show (5.0 TG) only amounts to a .38 Special +P load at ca. 19-20,000 PSI, barely. There is no way that caused the erosion to the barrel in your gun! It would take quite a few full charge loads with H110/296 to do that amount of damage. There is something either you aren't telling us, or that you don't know!

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Hi guys,

Thanks for the input fellers. The testing will continue. I guess I should try the HP38 in 357 cases.

The forcing cone erosion in the photo is from a gun I purchased new about two years ago.

I know it's hard to believe. Your post had me do a little more research. To date I've loaded about 7,500 rounds of the 5.0 TG / 125 JHP 357 recipe. My 627 has fired most of the rounds. I think that gun has fired closer to 5,000 of those.

Other than a very few loads with 2400 the gun has been on a steady diet of the Titegroup / 125 JHP.

If you do some google searches you will see warnings about using Titegroup or 125 grain bullets in 357 revolvers due to forcing cone erosion. When you put both together you definitely get the erosion. The thing is that it takes quite a few rounds and most people are not shooting that much.

But, here's the proof.


And a photo after I brushed the residue off:



I wish it wasn't true because that load was so awesome that I stocked up with about 30 pounds of Titegroup. I'm not a Titegroup basher...I love the stuff and will shoot it in other calibers.

By the way, I still have 1000 unfired rounds that I'm planning to shoot in the gun.


Later,
Dave

In my 686 6" with w231 I got this powder to spit out factory speeds and accuracy with;

125XTP 5.4gr at 1.44 OAL
158 Lwc 4.7gr at 1.48 OAL

I did not see the need to waste any more powder in the 38 cases. I was happy with these loads.

Good loading.

I was going to recommend 4.3 gr 231 behind a 158 gr cast, but it seems as you and others have already discovered that. I started using it in the early 80's and re-verified in a ransom rest a few years ago that it still does the best job. Titegroup burns too hot and 125 gr. bullets jump the gap too quick and cause all the flame cutting. Unfortunately I keep hearing 231 is going away!!! I will be buying up all the 231 I see, it is my go to powder.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244