Looking at possible replacement for Unique for 38 Spl, 38 Spl +P and 357 Mag (Mid Range) cast and jacketed loads.

Any suggestions?



Thank you

I stopped using Unique years ago. Universal is my go to powder.

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GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

+1 for what Cdog said.

HP38 is my favorite (Hodgdon Powder for 38). (Same as W231)
Several will work, including BE, Titegroup, Universal, etc.

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Science plus Art

Unique doesn't generate enough pressure in the 38 to burn clean. Try Titegroup.

BE-86 is a newer powder from Alliant with very similar properties to Unique.

Alliant Powder - BE-86

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Some collect art; I shoot it!

I'm also a fan of universal!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unique has a largely undeserved reputation as "flaming dirt".

That's an artifact of using it in light loads and it's not the best choice for standard pressure loads in the .38 Special.

Unique is however my favorite powder in short barreled .357s. I wouldn't call it a powder for just "mid range" loads either.

For example, with 9.0 grains of Unique under a Hornady 125 gr hollow point (still .4 gr under max in the Hornady second edition manual) it generates an average velocity of 1,296 fps in my 3" .357 Magnums.

I prefer 8.5 grains of Unique as the cases drop out of the chambers without sticking, yet it will still generate an average of 1,243 fps with a 125 gr XTP in a 3" barrel.

That compares to a velocity of only 1,148 fps in a 3" barrel with a near maximum load of 20.0 grains of Win 296 (20.4 gr maximum, per the Hornady sixth edition.)

Unique is also a decent powder in .38 +P loads, along with Titegroup.

However, my favorite for a .38 +P load with a 125 gr XTP is IMR 800X. 7.5 grains gives me an average of 929 fps in a 1 7/8" Model 36, 951 fps in a 2 1/8 Model 60, and 1,030 fps in a 3" Model 13 or 3" SP101 - and the SDs are normally between 10 and 20 fps - superb consistency for a short barrel.

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For .38 Special cast bullet target loads with a 158 gr LSWC, I'll use 3.2 grains of Red Dot. I've varied the charge up and down a bit over the years but I've found 3.2 gr gives me what I want in my various .38s and .357s. The load data is interesting as it has a range from 2.6 gr min to 3.9 gr max in the Hornady 3rd edition, but 3.5 gr to 5.6 gr in the 2nd edition - and the 2nd edition data in general is a bit hotter in general.

3.2 gr of Red Dot will produce 670 fps in a 1 7/8" Model 36, and 675 fps in a 2 1/8" Model 60 (I suspect the longer chamber loses as much velocity as is gained in the extra 1/4" of barrel). In a 3" Model 60 or Model 13, a 4" Model 10, and a 6" Model 19 it will produce 727 fps, 748 fps, and 794 fps respectively with SDs in velocity between 10 and 15 fps, which is again very consistent.

I substitute Power Pistol for Unique --- and I prefer it.

AA-7 does pretty well.

I agree. Much of the blame comes from using it with cast bullets. The dirt and smoke is from the burnt lube, not Unique.

Universal Clays is almost a direct replacement for Unique. Load data is ALMOST interchangeable.

Same here.

Universal was my go to powder before the great powder shortage. Haven't seen any in years. Last week I found a store that had a whole shelf full. I picked up a bottle and plan on reacquainting myself with it.

Another Universal convert.
It meters way better than Unique and does everything else Unique does.
There are lots of "official" recipes out there too.
At the very high end of pressure it doesn't track exactly to Unique but as stated it's very close.

Attached Images

	UniversalClaysMagnumTargets800.jpg (180.8 KB, 65 views)
	696-1Targets.jpg (73.9 KB, 59 views)

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

Don't get me wrong - I don't mind that people blame Unique. It just means more people switch to BE-86, Universal, etc and leaves less competition for supplies of Unique.

I find Unique is also very useful with .30-30, .38-55 and .45-70 cast bullet loads.a although you need to use a polyester wad as filler in the .38-55 and .45-70.

If I had to plan for the apocalypse and could only have a single pistol powder, it would be Unique.

Unique was introduced in 1900 and Bullseye has been around since 1898, and both are still excellent pistol powders and remain commercially successful as they fill a very useful niche. In contrast, other "old" powders like 2400 and Red Dot didn't show up until 1932 and are comparative newbies.

People make the mistake of thinking that newer must mean better, but in the 39 years I've been hand loading I've watched a lot of powders that were much newer disappear and I've watched a few that have gone from birth to death within that same time frame.

Several factors can be blamed for various powders demise over the decades besides lack of popularity.
The companies themselves are bought, sold, merge, or just die.
These days one big reason is the invention of new manufacturing processes that are cheaper.
Witness the complete upheaval of the IMR line.
Or the demise of the Universal line at ADI.
Luckily popularity saved that one and Hodgdon picked up the ball.
If Unique metered better in my Redding thrower I really would have no reason to abandon it.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

I never got great accuracy with Universal & lead bullets, so if looking for a replacement, I like WSF, almost identical, PowerPistol or BE86, maybe AA#5.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I've successfully found replacement powders for all my handgun loads that formerly shot well with Unique. Once I do the same with the .32-20 (rifle), I'll be finished.

Unique has always lived up to it's name. It works well in about any handgun cartridge and has been the basis for many accurate loads. If it flowed through a measure better, I would probably have no need for other handgun cartridge powders.

As for comparing Unique with the easy-flow Universal, I must generally agree with fredj338; the accuracy level of Universal often lags behind Unique, at least with cast bullets.

This thing about Unique being dirty-burning frequently surfaces. It's beyond me how a shooter can tell any difference from one powder to another if cast bullets are used. One's no dirtier than another. They all require cleanup.

AA#5 and HS-6 are what I use.

Don

Why change from Unique? If it's not broke why fix it? I've used it since about 1975, it hasn't let me down yet. The point is well taken that if you want to change, good, leaves more for the rest of us. :-)

I've used unique for more years than I care to remember. But never in smaller cartridges. In 38/357 2400 is much better as is bullseye for lgiht target loads. I only use unique in 41 mag, 44 spec, 44 mag and 45 ACP(for some loads).

I switched to Universal around 15 years ago. Yes, cast lead bullet lube smokes as bad with it as anything else.

I switched for the metering properties and lack of freckles I and my .45's suffered using Unique. Used a lot of W231/HP38 before settling in on Universal. It's very good/versatile powder too.

I use Universal in the same applications as anyone would use Unique. Accuracy has never been an issue. I use it almost exclusively for my .45 ACP target loads. I prefer it over faster powders due to better load density. It really shines in standard pressure .45 Colt. Yes, I use it in standard pressure .38 special loads too.

For higher performance I switch gears. Longshot, W296/H110, Accurate 5 and 7 are all staples for me.

I'm not married to any powder. I'll explore and experiment.

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GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

Don't forget the old standby BULLSEYE!

Big fan of unique, no others needed. Perfection!

BE86 meters much better than Unique, burn rate about the same.

Powder measures might make difference.

I've found that Unique, Red Dot and Bullseye all meter very well through my Dillon Powder measures. With all of the above flake powders if I want (for example) 3.2 grains, it will deliver 3.2 grains every single throw when checked on my digital scale. If it's varying between 3.2 and 3.3, it's because I'm right on the edge and backing off a 1/12 turn or so will give me consistent readings on the scale when setting the measure, and it will hold that in subsequent accuracy checks over hundreds of rounds.

I suspect the Dillon measure works well with flake powders given how the shuttle operators and the fairly solid "clunk" that is delivered with each throw, which settles the powder evenly.

Thank you everyone, great inputs.

I tap my Little Dandy Rotor three times to settle Unique, and it weighs out right on the money in accordance with RCBS charge chart. Power Pistol and HP38 does not require this methodology which I prefer to do without!

44 Special, lead bullets, and Unique have been such good old friends who have aged so gracefully over the years, I would hate to break them up....

Agreed. .38 Special and .357 Magnum are two very different pressure bands. Just because the reloading manuals list data for a given powder in .38, .45, and .44 Magnum, doesn't mean the powder will be very happy to operate in all those cartridges.

For .38 Special, Bullseye and Winchester SuperTarget have served me well. Lots of people say nice things about Titegroup and HP-38/WW-231 (I wish I could get some locally, but no dice). Both the BE and WST meter beautifully even at tiny charge weights, and burn clean.

For .357 Magnum, Universal has burned adequately at those pressures, but I haven't been super-satisfied with it. There's always more smoke, more unburned powder and residue, and larger groups than Unique, no matter how how or cold the load. I know a few 9mm guys that have been very happy with Hodgdon CFE Pistol, at more or less .357 Magnum pressures.

Oh, and when looking for a replacement powder, I'd also suggest swapping primer brands if that's acceptable to you. It can make a big difference.

I use Power Pistol in all my 38spl loads.

Power Pistol, AA#5 and Unique are my go-to's for service-level loads in .38. For midrange target WCs, you can hardly beat Bullseye, IMO, but I read that AA#2 is comparable (haven't used it myself). For the hot stuff in my HDs, 2400 is the choice. HTH

Larry

Unique measures fine in my RCBS Competition Powder Measure. The flake looks like it wouldn't measure well, but, in fact, it measures just fine.

I have tried everything, and come to a broad conclusion after 30+ years of testing new powders. The Powder the consistently gives the best groups, and shoots cleanly, is Accurate #5. The starting loads should be used with care, starting from good loading books (Accurate provides a free paper one), but using the Uniques weight is a great start (in every cartridge I have used....20+)

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Terry
SWCA, SWHS, IWLA, NRA

Many use Power Pistol, Universal, w231 and the new B#-86 to replace the old timer..............................

I want to try them.......
but guess what showed up this month at the sporting goods store?

Unique.

CFE-Pistol and BE-86 for me.

Powders are hard to come by in my area. I wanted to try the unique but haven't found any. I ended up getting 2 lbs of W231 and have been pleased with it. 38 sp, 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45 acp seem to work well with it. Hope the powders show up in the future some time. I want to make a trip to OKC to Bass Pro and see what they have. They show some in stock on their online catalog.

Universal
Blue Dot
231
HP38
HS-6
Power Pistol
N-330
Can all work when Unique can't be found. These day's you have to use what ever you can find , not like the old days.
Gary

HS 6 works for me in 38 +p and 357. Does not work for 38 spl.

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Reg. Magnum wants/Rossi wallet

There is no substitute as good as Unique. Widener's just sent an email saying they have 8lbs of Unique at $145. That's at the old pre-panick cost of $18 a lb.!!

It's actually on sale for $135. However, by the time you add in the $30 hazmat fee and $15 in shipping it's $180 for 8 pounds - $22.50 per pound.

At the regular $145 price, it is $23.75 per pound, which isn't that much less than the $25 ($26.75 with tax) per pound I pay for it in a local gun shop.

Thanks, OldChief!!! I thought I was the only one still using Bullseye. It's only been around for what? 118+ years? Came out in 1898, just before I was born!!! (I'm kidding, I'm not quite that old!) I still like it for many loads. In fact I read an article by if I remember correctly, Patrick Sweeney, in "Handguns" magazine, where he uses BE for a bunch of calibers and loads.

I'm not going to list any of them here, but check the story (just found the magazine) in the February/March 2015 issue. P14, "Bullseye Magic"

I know that if I'm loading say .32 S&W Long, with 2.0 gr of BE, I can get 3,500 rounds out of a pound of powder!!! If I'm loading 38 Spls with 148 gr bullets and 3.5 gr of BE, that's 2,000 rounds per pound!!! Not bad. Although you have to be really careful about double or even triple charges, because a little goes a long way.

I may be old fashioned, but I have been using BE since 1970, and although I use other powders (and Unique is one of them), it is still my go to powder!!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Why look for a substitute if you like Unique?
**DAILY** In-Stock Reloading NOTICES

Looks like we are about from the same vintage...and my experience with Unique is also the same.I must say that while I've found out that it's not the best for regular .38SPL,it is great for +P loads for said .38SPL or for +P .45Colt and full power .45ACP and 9mmX19 loads(or medium vel .44 .41 and .357Mag loads(aprox 1250FPS)).
And for cast bullets in rifles,exactly as you said Sir!

Unique=dirty powder?I get my hands washed off but my wife cant wash away my smile from using it!

Qc Pistolero:

Welcome to the forum!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

At that price,I'd grab it muy pronto!

Thanks!Already feel like at home!

LOL, the link in my first post above was to a special at Weidner's for 8lb jugs for $135 - less than $17 a pound.
Looks like they sold out pretty quick though