I've come upon a couple of old RCBS dies that I need some help with. One die has "38 spec size 1 J"in top. Appears to be a sizing only die. No depriming stem.
The other has " 38 sp seat 3 J " on top. Looks like a seating die. I assume it crimps as well. But I've not seen a seating only die.
Anyone familiar with these old dies?

__________________
Reg. Magnum wants/Rossi wallet

Your seater die looks like mine, circa 1978, but the sizing die is very different. From the picture, it does not appear to be threaded to accept the decapping pin hardware. But it may not need to be. I think on mine the decap assy slips in and a nut and thread adj is holding it together. Mine is in use so I cant take it apart to compare.
The 1J and 3J stampings are a mystery to me.
I wonder if RCBS could offer an explanation. Im sure they could get you the decapping assy for that die.
Let us know what you find out.
Jim

I have a set of Bonanza 38/357 dies from the 70s.
It has a sizing only die, decapping/flaring die and a seating die.
I used to have a set of RCBS 44 mag dies made in the 70s that had similar dies in it.

The die manufacturers have played with the dies and the order in which they do things several times over the decades. On your third die, you can back the die body out enough to not engage the roll crimp. Lock in place, and set the seating plug to the COAL you wish (or line up the case mouth with the crimp groove in the bullet), and crimp in a latter step with a roll or taper crimp die.

You are missing a die that bells the case mouth (and decaps). You will need one! The second die from another cartridge of the same general diameter will work (examples: 380, 38 super, 38 S&W or 9mm). You can order a die, but unless you are making super precise ammo and use the Lyman "M" die, You would be better off buying a whole die set in one of the other rounds. You can also use a "Universal" decapping die, or use a larger sizing/decapping die (like 44 or 45) as a substitute.

And one last info bit, your 38 special died will also load 357 magnum also, you will need to adjust dies 2 & 3 to the longer setting but the sizing die is left the same.

I also see that these are not carbide sizing dies, remember to lube the cases lightly.

Ivan

My RCBS 38/357 die set is marked 77, the year they were produced. My sizer die is a carbo and is threaded unlike yours. Ivan is correct, you are missing the bell/decapping die. The numbers on you set indicate: #1 sizer, #2 bell & decapper, and #3 is the seater. I don't have any idea what the "J" means. At most gun shows there are dealers with a box of old dies and you might get lucky and find your missing die. If it were me though, I'd get a carbide die set because I hate the extra messy step of lubing cases.

The old RCBS dies had the decapping pin on the expander die (never have found why), rather than the current practice of putting it on the sizer die. I have both types and they both work equally well.

The other difference is no carbide ring on the sizer which means you have to lube the cases.

I'd put your 2 dies up on the shelf as conversation pieces. As noted above, a new expander die and sizer stem will cost as much as a brand new carbide set. Plus all that lubing. No way!

__________________
USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

+1, Get a set of carbide dies and you will never regret doing so.

Not only have I used RCBS dies all my life, I worked for them at one time just out of gunsmithing school!

The dies at one time were marked 1, 2, 3, the order they were used.

The "expander die (2) is missing, the decapping pin was part of the "expander stem assembly".

The letter "P" on top of the sizer die is the year date code, something around 1964 I believe, and as I recall just about the last year that letters were used. 1965-66 they started stamping a clear two digit year.

(Bastogne71 is correct, the date code letter is a "J", not a P. This would date that die to ca. 1959! The remainder of the above remark is still correct.)

The die marked "Seat" is a seat/crimp die, it just has the seater stem so far down in the die it is hiding the crimp shoulder! Someone was probably loading .38 S&W or .38 ACP/Super with it.

The size die is not carbide, you have to lubricate the cases, then clean them.

When those dies were made they retailed for $6.50. As employees we could buy them in the company retail store for $3.25! I still have a couple of sets I bought while working there.

What else do you want to know?

__________________
Gunsmithing since 1961

RCBS has great customer service if you want to give them a call and get some parts.

I like the newer dies where the stems can be unscrewed from the TOP of the die rather than unthreading them from the bottom. But I have some of the old dies and they still work just fine.

__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Looks like they have answered you about the dies. I have a 38 Special set like yours. I do have the belling die and I still use it, but have the decapping pin removed. I also use a carbide sizing die I got in a pistol trade years ago instead of the original one. I have this old die kit set up to load 38 special on my single station press, since I don't usually shoot a whole bunch of 38's. I have another die kit set up for my Dillon 450 for 357 Mag.

I'd get a new set of (carbide) dies to load your ammo as others suggest.
But I'd also keep the extra seater die from this set handy.
I use an extra seater/crimp die set up for a separate bullet weight & shape. That way I don't have to adjust/readjust the one seater-crimp die all the time.
In 38spl,,I load a lot of 148grWC and also 158gr LSWC.
An already set-up and adjusted seater/crimp die for each makes reloading much easier.

LOL, you made me pull out my old 38/357 RCBS dies (now decommisioned) to compare them. They have the die sequence numbers too, no "J" but rather "65" instead. I know I didn't buy them in 1965, more like 1967/1968 when I bought my first 357 Mag, Ruger Blackhawk, & started reloading. That gun got a pounding.

.

__________________
Waiting for the break of day

Alk8944,

Do you happen to know why RCBS changed the decapping pin from the expander die to the sizing die?

__________________
USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

new RCBS .38/.357 $45 at Midway

A good soaking of the parts in some solvent over night to help remove all the "Crud" that has piled up
and a good rub down with a rag and a nylon brush to get rid of any rust,will have those parts as good as new.

Just add a little oil and be careful when tightening the locking ring, not to strip or damage the tightening screws
and you will be set for life.

RCBS may send the middle die free of charge..........worth a try.
Good luck.

This topic has been discussed several times on several other forums, probably here too, but here are a couple of items that may help.
The alpha character dating started in '49 with A. There are claims that some dated '63 dies are around. My earliest set is a '64 dated .225 Win.

As an aside, one of my shooting buds is acquainted with the Huntington Brothers but they weren't in the store when he called recently. Do you have any idea about how old they are now?

__________________
Good shooting.

That was several years after I left. I would think it was for consistency though, greater parts interchangeability. Some cases like .32 S&W, .380, etc. are too short for the de-capping pin to be on the expander! The company has changed hands a couple of times since OPs dies were made, different engineering philosophy too. I like the current design better except for the Lyman style headed de-cap pin, I don't think that is an improvement, though it is a simplification that probably is cost saving.

__________________
Gunsmithing since 1961

I still reload with RCBS dies like that , find a decapping/flaring die and you in business.
Lubing cases with Lee case lube isn't messy and I find the old steel dies don't over size like the carbide dies sometimes do, cases last longer.
Keep them around , you never know when a separate sizer or seater will be needed. Find the decapping/flaring die and get a youngster started in reloading.
Gary

Thanks Alk.

__________________
USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

Looking again at the photos, I saw that the dies are marked 38 Spl not 38/357. If bugkiller had the expander #2 die and wanted to reload 357, he would have to raise the expander by 0.135 to avoid over belling the longer case. But that will also raise the decapping pin and now does the pin extend far enough to punch out the expended primer?

Perhaps that is why I purchased a used Pacific die marked 357 #2 that is also a expander/decaper but that was 40 years ago & I don't remember the details.

I have the big brother sets in .357 for Round nose and Semi wad cutter. In both sets the sizing die is steel, not carbide. The SWC came with my second hand press and I got the RN set cheap since it was steel.

In searching the history and chatting with some old timers about the steel dies because of the precieved stress on the brass during sizing they wanted to reduce the force needed during this step. Decapping and expanding require less force when performed together. The open top of the sizing die also allowed a punch to be used to force stuck brass back down out of the die should the case get stuck due to insufficient lube.

Carbide sizing dies made all this a moot point and the reloading world also figured out that there is no real diffrence between the seperate .38 and .357 die sets leading to the combined set we have today. I subsequently found a used carbide sizing die and a roll crimp die to bring my sets up to "modern" standards. In both sets the sizing dies are badly in need of polishing as they scar up the brass pretty good when sizing.

An additional note, from the picture it appears that you have the round nose stem in the seating die.

Die sets with the decapper on the sizing die let you use a progressive press with a "powder through the die" powder measure on the next die station. Most such dies combine the case belling with the powder drop capability.

BUFF, when that die set was made, there was no such thing as a consumer grade progressive press. That was long before companies such as Dillon made an affordable progressive machine.

Which might help explain why they changed it.

You have always been able to load .357 Magnum with most companies .38 Special die sets. (At least since WWII) The only problem was if you tried to load .38 Spl. in a .357 Magnum die set you couldn't crimp! Everything else worked just fine!

There is nothing special about current die sets that are marked .38/.357, they are simply .38 Special dies. The same is true with .44 Spl/Mag, .32 S&WL/.32 H&R/.327 Federal, die sets, they are simply dies for the shorter cartridge that can be adjusted for the longer one!

__________________
Gunsmithing since 1961

Looking at my RCBS die set in .38 Special I see that it is date coded 1967. The carbide sizer die was added later, date coded 1973, and I have appreciated not having to lube cases and clean them after reloading for over 40 years!

Can't remember exactly when I last purchased factory loaded .38 or .357 ammo, but I'm thinking that it was about 1980 or so. Still using one batch of .38 Special brass (2000 rounds) that I started reloading in about 1976. With moderate powder charges and cast bullets I think they will last forever.

RCBS has always been one of the best suppliers.