I normally load all my .223 Rem using my BCBS Charge Master 1500 and do all loads right at the weight I want even if I have to dump some out of the pan to hit the weight or trickle some in. Well to night I got 1000 55gr FMJ from X-treme andwas wanting to load up a 1000 rounds for just plain fun shooting. I tried to get the Dillon 550B powder drop set to 25.5 and I get it at 25.5 then the next drop will be 25.6 I kept dropping charges and they range from 25.3 to 25.7. I think I could live with 25.4 to 25.6 as I am not bench rest shooting and this is going to take a while if I have to use the Charge Master.

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I've experienced the same thing with several powders. Try adjusting the level of the ChargeMaster using the adjustable front "feet." Sometimes a combination of the coarseness of the powder particles and the angle of the drop tube need to be adjusted to one another.

Ed

Ed the Charger Master is doing ok it does + or - 0.1 most of the time and most drops are right on. it is the 550B that the drops are all over the place. Like + or - 0.3. I am just dropping them with the Charge master and loading any drops that are in 0.1gr After all these will be shot off hand from 10 to 100yds. Thanks for mentioning the adjustable front legs I had forgot all about them.

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If your target drop is 25.5 grs., then 25.3/25.7 would be +/- .02 gr. I think that would be acceptable for plinking loads in an AR rifle. Varget is a hard powder to meter, IMO.

I don't know anyone that can hold well enough to actually see the difference in that small a variation....Load them and go have a blast!!

Randy

I would think so as I am not close to the Max load. I just wanted to get some input on Varget. I like the power and have a bunch of it. Wasn't real happy with CFE 223 wasn't getting good velocity. I like CFE Pistol it is about all I use in 5 calibers from 9mm to 45 ACP.

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I hand weigh all my Varget loads. For 223/5.56, I used the Dillon RL450 to load 20,000 in 1984-5. I used WW748 with the old "Push to drop" powder measure. This drop was within .05 grain (1/2 of a 10th) with ball powder. The extruded powder is always difficult to drop consistently, so try another powder if you can or weigh them out. H335 is also a good choice also.

If you can get the powder/drop combo to work out, your Dillon can put out surprisingly good accuracy ammo. That large batch I did years ago puts groups in the 1/10" group at 100 yards from a bolt gun and 1/4" from my full sized AR. For AR group size from a progressive I like regular CCI primers (or mag sm. rifle, if the data calls for it). The "special" or "military" primers are great for full auto but don't get the tight groups in my guns.

I haven't bought FMJ bullets since the early 80's, but have noticed the prices get up to $17.99/100. (I paid $8.99/ 1000 for Winchester's back then. CCI primers were about $7.99/1000 too. I think I paid $46.99/8 pounds for 748! and mixed fired military brass was 3 to 4 cents depending on quantity, and buying 23,000 about dried up local availability.) I also heard complaints about current FMJBT bullet weight variance! At 100 yards this won't be that big of deal, but beyond 200 it really starts showing up!

Polymer bullets have come down in price (comparatively) and would be my current choice for accurate bulk loading, these days. In 22 center fire I use 50 grain polymers for everything, but 22 Hornet and 1000 yard target shooting. I try to keep a few hundred of each of the 4 brands on the shelf (Sierra, Hornady, Nosler and Combined Technology). First, I find the powder and primer combo for accuracy, then test all 4 types of bullets for the most accuracy, then load a bunch!

Ivan

I missed the part about you using your Dillon measure. Sorry - when I read the topic, I was sure I knew the answer before fully reading the post.

Ed

Have you ever studied Statistics? Yeah, dreaded MATH that is now being removed from some college diploma requirements at a local community college.

If you have ever studied Statistics you would realize variations such as this are indicators of the potential for much larger variations. I fully expect that if you weigh 50 consecutive charges you will find some charges thrown with 1/2 grain variations. I also expect that if you weigh 100 consecutive charges you'll find 2 or three that are as much as 8/10 or 1 grain from your target weight. That is the value of Statistics, it's an excellent method that can accurately predict behaviors such as this. What happens in a process such as this is you get a distribution of charge weights that fall under a bell shaped curve and Statistics is a superb predictor of these type of distributions and the behavior at the extremes of the curve.

My advice is that you set your Varget aside and use it for loading optimum Accuracy loads. Because it's the most Accurate shooting powder I've found for the 223. If you want a good powder with excellent metering properties you can use for basic practice or plinking ammunition pick up some CFE223. My capability studies on CFE223 indicate a maximum variation of 0.12 grains using my RCBS Competition powder measure and I expect you would find a similar result using your Dillon powder drop.

If all you have is Varget then use your Chargemaster and weigh out each charge. Because if you don't that one in 300 charge weight may be light enough to leave a squib in your barrel or heavy enough to burst a case. While neither event is unsafe on an individual basis shooting into a squib will burst a rifle barrel and a burst case usually requires removing the barrel from the receiver to remove the remnants of the case. Both types of failure are range day ending events so why chance it when CFE223 is so easy to find right now?

No problem Ed I been known to do that myself.

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Scooter I never made it much past common math but know just a little from listening to my smart friends talk. I didn't even have to throw that many charges with my 550B to get a charge that was 3/4 of a gr. off. I and a little CFE 223 left from my testing just never felt I was getting the velocity I was expecting compared to Varget so bought 16 pounds of Varget. I don't mind using the ChargeMaster and with excepting 5.4 to 5.6 I am not having to trickle or remove powder. That is good for these loads. My good ammo better be right on the money and I even wonder if the charge is really 25.59 and not 25.5

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"... I can't get the velocity"

Full loads or even medium loads are not always the best.

You might try that 55gr pill down near 2750fps one time if you get a chance. You might be surprised at what might turn up.

Ed a mid range load of CFE 223 is giving me 2650 avg with a 55gr VMax. I was hoping to at least hit 3K but this 16" barrel probably won't get me there. A Max load at 27.4 grs will give me 2900fps but I don't like running max loads. Mid range or lower always give me the best groups. I can group 1/3 MOA with my 20" Wilson Super Sniper barrel with a starting load.

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This is some excellent advice. Not only will you often find your most accurate loads at a more moderate velocity but you'll also reduce the wear in the barrel by a notable amount.

Warning, more math here. Barrel wear is a result of the Kinetic Energy transfer between the barrel and bullet. This transfer of energy is expressed as Friction and the formula for Kinetic Energy is 1/2 Mass times the Velocity SQUARED. So if you reduce bullet velocity from 3200 fps down to 2750 fps the reduction in energy scrubbed off in the barrel due to Friction is equal to the (square of 2750) divided by the (square of 3200). So by cutting your velocity by just 450 fps you will reduce the wear on the barrel by just a bit more than 16%.

I consider this a win-win-win. Not only do I get loads that are actual tack drivers I also extend the life of my barrel and get a slight reduction in recoil.

I bought a new Remington heavy-barrel stainless steel Model 700 in .223 REM a couple of years ago to use as a target gun. I 86'd the Tupperware stock right away in favor of a Keystone Arms benchrest stock and replaced the factory trigger with a Timney.



In spite of its 1-12" rifling twist rate, which "should" stabilize 50 to 55-grain bullets best, it shoots one-hole groups with 64-grain Bergers at a barrel-friendly 2,910fps. The load is 24.5 grains of Varget in R-P brass with CCI BR-4 primers. You might want to try heavier bullets in your gun.

Ed

Ed I got some 69gr Match Kings loaded up in 5 different powder charges in new Lapua brass i just haven't got around to doing the testing on them.

BTW that is a darn nice looking rifle. I prefer a bolt action rifle and have a Savage target rifle in 17 HRM and one in 22LR. It is hard to beat the beauty of a wood stock. I feel the same about handgun grips and think i have bought some of my guns just because of the looks of the grips or stocks. Back in my youth a made stocks and did hand checkering. I hated when they switched to pressed checkering and now I guess it is laser or machine. It does look better then the press. Nice rifle might have to put one on my bucket list. BTW I put Boyd's Hard wood furniture on one of my ARs.

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Since you mentioned Savage, I have a Model 12BVSS - well, that's how it's marked but it is a long action so it should be a 112BVSS - in 6.5-284 Norma. I had a muzzle brake fabricated and installed locally and replaced the AccuTrigger with a Timney but the stock is factory. I did replace the original butt pad(?) with a Limbsaver.



The sucker shoots some pretty fair three-shot groups with IMR4451 and 140-grain Bergers. I only shoot three as it prolongs barrel life and let's face it, so self-respecting varmint is going to hang around any longer than that.



It does about as well but with better consistency with the discontinued IMR4007SSC under 120-grain Bergers but I don't have a photo of one of those targets in my PC, just on my phone.

And speaking of the new IMR Enduron powders, perhaps you ought to give 4166 a try in your .223 REM.



In search of the best bullet for accuracy, I worked my way up from numerous 50-grain bullets to 70-grain Bergers but the groups went to hell at that weight/length - three-plus inches, so 64 grains is my rifle's "sweet spot." It shot some great groups with lighter bullets - the 53-grain V-Max was one of them, but it wouldn't do it consistently.

Isn't it fun having all these frustrating choices? I just wish my eyes were capable of wringing the most out of my rifles.

Ed

I have a Howa 1500 in .223 and with the right ammo it can do sub 1/2MOA groups out to 250 yards. (The limit of the range I shoot at) I load a 55gr GameKing bullet #1390 over 25.0gr Varget. I have loaded up to 26.0gr Varget with no gain or loss of accuracy, only an increase in velocity.

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Both my Savage stocks are thumb hole. Always wanted 1 when i was growing up so I bought two.

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Ed I do have a unopened pound of IRM 4198 and see Hodgdon has a load 18 to 20.4 gr for 55gr bullets I may load some of those up. The outdoor range I belong to carries it for member sales. I will check Friday if they have 4166 and pick up a pound.

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I have probably loaded over 50 lbs of Varget over the last 8-9 years. All into 22-250 cases and behind a 55 gr. Nosler ballistic tip. I hand weigh every load, and trickle in for an exact weight. The 55 gr. is cooking along at 3600 fps, and consistently does under a 1/4" at 100 yds from either of my Rem. 700's, These are my Prairie Dog guns, and I have taken unknown quantities of dogs out to and past 500 yds with them. Varget is a "short" stick powder , but still needs to have the last few granules added to get exact loadings. Trying to just drop loads I could never get within .3 gr. +/-.

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SWCA1967 SWHF244

Nice. Darn I knew when I bought the 20" Wilson Combat Super Sniper barrel I should have gotten a longer one.

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