The "Man Stopper" in .45 Colt....

fortyshooter · #1 10-06-2016, 08:14 PM

Last year I did a water jug test of some of the so called "man stopper" bullets designed for big expansion at low speeds 750-800 FPS.
In this test I compared it to a factory round...Underwood's .45 Colt 250 gr. XTP round which was chronyed at about same speed out of my 3.5 inch barrel .45 Colt revolver.
My man stopper bullet (MS) was loaded over 6.5 gr. of Unique powder and tested at 780 FPS.

No determination that it would stop a man but it was an interesting fun test.
Jug test of .45 Colt WCHP bullet... man stopper - YouTube

Picture showing the MS 240 gr. bullet and the Underwood 250 gr. XTP bullet recovered from jug test.
Measured expansion on MS bullet was .980

fredj338 · #2 10-06-2016, 10:12 PM

This is one i cast. At 800fps ot makes a really nice mushroom in wetpack & stays together quite well. As this pic shows, it frags above 900fps, but a good bullet in a 3"-4" rev.

fortyshooter · #3 10-06-2016, 10:16 PM

Nice expansion!

hdwhit · #4 10-07-2016, 01:07 AM

My grandfather was a marksmanship instructor at the Army's Infantry School at Ft. Benning, GA, from 1924 until 1943. He was involved with numerous tests of both pistol and rifle ammunition that took place during the 1920's and 1930's. They determined that the 230 grain full metal case bullet of the .45 ACP cartridge at about 850 fps was more than adequate to "put a man down and keep him down".

Regardless of expansion (and consequent tissue damage), heavier expansive bullets traveling at comparable velocities should be expected to achieve similar - or better - results.

fortyshooter · #5 10-07-2016, 11:56 AM

These are like the ol' Dillon bullets of the 1880's....no matter where ol' Matt Dillion shot you, you went down!

USSR · #6 10-07-2016, 01:29 PM

My .45 Colt deer stopper.

Don

P.S. - Fragmenting is a result of too much antimony in the alloy. Eliminate/reduce the Sb and replace it with Sn and you will get nice mushrooming.

ISCS Yoda · #7 10-07-2016, 03:27 PM

I don't believe in using handloads in defensive guns but YMMV - but the ..45 Colt has always been a stopper, even in the old blackpowder days. If I could carry my Model 25 concealed every day I would.

Nemo288 · #8 10-07-2016, 05:42 PM

The latest Handloader magazine (pg. 58) has an article by Terry Wieland about the "manstopper" bullets in
(of all things) the 32 S&W long and 44 special.
These versions are pure lead wadcutters with a VERY deep HP.
Another flying ash tray.

fredj338 · #9 10-07-2016, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USSR

My .45 Colt deer stopper.

Don

P.S. - Fragmenting is a result of too much antimony in the alloy. Eliminate/reduce the Sb and replace it with Sn and you will get nice mushrooming.

The HP design has a lot to do with it too. The bullet in my pic has no antimony, only lead/tin. The nose is just too thin to support impact vel much over 850fps. It actually makes a pretty good 45acp bullet if your gun will feed it. Same bullet with a cup point. Notice the vel was higher but nice mushroom with no frags.

fortyshooter · #10 10-07-2016, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo288

The latest Handloader magazine (pg. 58) has an article by Terry Wieland about the "manstopper" bullets in
(of all things) the 32 S&W long and 44 special.
These versions are pure lead wadcutters with a VERY deep HP.
Another flying ash tray.

Yes..I was just reading that article!

chief38 · #11 10-09-2016, 08:43 PM

The .45 Colt is one of the better calibers as far as stopping power is concerned. If you look at the reloading data tables from the Powder Companys you can see that the big heavy bullets can be loaded to near .44 Magnum levels. Even at well below those levels a 250 or 225 grain slug is serious medicine!

The down side to the .45 Colt is that all the guns that shoot it are rather large, bulky and heavy which all but precludes them from being a CCW piece. For HD or a night stand gun it makes perfect sense!

After shooting .45 Colt in Colt six guns and Lever Rifles for 35 years I have great respect for the cartridge! It's no wonder WHY it has survived all these years.

Wise_A · #12 10-09-2016, 09:00 PM

It's disgustingly potent in modern firearms, and nearly as versatile as the .44 Magnum.

I've never loaded or shot it (waiting to get a .460 so I can try it a little)--how does it compare to .44 Mag at longer ranges?

pittpa · #13 10-09-2016, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief38

The down side to the .45 Colt is that all the guns that shoot it are rather large, bulky and heavy which all but precludes them from being a CCW piece. For HD or a night stand gun it makes perfect sense! .

Thankfully, the movie people care little for these details. And here I was considering selling my 8" 25-9.

DanM · #14 11-07-2016, 05:32 AM

In theory, you don't shouldn't need expanding bullets to put a man down with the 45 Colt. As hdwhit said, 45acp ball is a well respected member of this manstopper group. My favorite load for the 6" 25-5 is with my cast 250gr swc at 900+fps. I enjoy dropping 6" plates at 25yds with it DA. Usually don't hit em all, but when I do, I am smiling. Those plates go down hard.

StrawHat · #15 11-07-2016, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief38

...The down side to the .45 Colt is that all the guns that shoot it are rather large, bulky and heavy which all but precludes them from being a CCW piece. For HD or a night stand gun it makes perfect sense!...

And yet, myself and others have been carrying "N" frames with 4" barrels for years. Mine is a 45 ACP.

Kevin

StrawHat · #16 11-07-2016, 07:39 AM

I have not seen or used these bullets, the MS 240, but I do load and use a 235 grain full wadcutter at 850 fps. It hits like a brick and shoots to the sights.

Kevin

cowboy4evr · #17 11-07-2016, 12:24 PM

I cast and shoot a 280 gr WFN pb . It's a mold from Veral Smith @ LBT Molds . I also , a couple of years ago lucked onto an old H&G 4 cav mold of the Elmer Keith swc , approx 255 grs . It came complete with handles . All my pistols are S&W , 25's .
With the Lee 255 rnfp (cowboy style ) that pretty well rounds out my bullets for the 45LC . 8 grs of Ramshot Zip is my favorite load , even in my M92 Puma 16" lever gun .

fredj338 · #18 11-07-2016, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief38

The .45 Colt is one of the better calibers as far as stopping power is concerned. If you look at the reloading data tables from the Powder Companys you can see that the big heavy bullets can be loaded to near .44 Magnum levels. Even at well below those levels a 250 or 225 grain slug is serious medicine!

The down side to the .45 Colt is that all the guns that shoot it are rather large, bulky and heavy which all but precludes them from being a CCW piece. For HD or a night stand gun it makes perfect sense!

After shooting .45 Colt in Colt six guns and Lever Rifles for 35 years I have great respect for the cartridge! It's no wonder WHY it has survived all these years.

I don't think a 4" N-frame or Redhawk is all that big & heavy. A bit wider than any semi but not so much more than a L-frame.

DWalt · #19 11-07-2016, 03:41 PM

Back in the early days of the 20th Century, the armies of both Great Britain and the US developed and considered using .45 "Manstopper" bullets. But the final decision was that there was little benefit in doing so.

Regarding the US manstopper bullet, it involved the .45 revolver round. Development began in 1906, and both lead bullets and jacketed bullets were considered. Designs included 230 and 250 grain bullets with large cavities in the nose, and longitudinal cuts in bullet jackets. The project was abandoned in 1907, never to be re-started. So far as I am aware, no "manstopper" bullet designs were ever considered for the .45 ACP.

Of course, the Hague Convention protocols now prohibit use of expanding bullets in combat, and have for quite some time.

Tom S. · #20 11-07-2016, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief38

The .45 Colt is one of the better calibers as far as stopping power is concerned. If you look at the reloading data tables from the Powder Companys you can see that the big heavy bullets can be loaded to near .44 Magnum levels. Even at well below those levels a 250 or 225 grain slug is serious medicine!

The down side to the .45 Colt is that all the guns that shoot it are rather large, bulky and heavy which all but precludes them from being a CCW piece. For HD or a night stand gun it makes perfect sense!

After shooting .45 Colt in Colt six guns and Lever Rifles for 35 years I have great respect for the cartridge! It's no wonder WHY it has survived all these years.

Are you advocating a 4 shot J-frame in 45 Colt?

zeke · #21 11-08-2016, 07:47 AM

250 grain GDHP, the hollow point is HUGE.

Nemo288 · #22 11-09-2016, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeke

250 grain GDHP, the hollow point is HUGE.

That's why those and some like it are called "the flying ashtray".
The 44 version has the biggest hollow I have ever seen.

Dale53 · #23 11-09-2016, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWalt

Back in the early days of the 20th Century, the armies of both Great Britain and the US developed and considered using .45 "Manstopper" bullets. But the final decision was that there was little benefit in doing so.

Regarding the US manstopper bullet, it involved the .45 revolver round. Development began in 1906, and both lead bullets and jacketed bullets were considered. Designs included 230 and 250 grain bullets with large cavities in the nose, and longitudinal cuts in bullet jackets. The project was abandoned in 1907, never to be re-started. So far as I am aware, no "manstopper" bullet designs were ever considered for the .45 ACP.

Of course, the Hague Convention protocols now prohibit use of expanding bullets in combat, and have for quite some time.

It is interesting that the
Hague Convention prohibits the use of expanding bullets but say nothing about blowing off legs with landmines or "frying" people with napalm, etc.

Another situation illustrating "feel good" decisions that essentially do nothing but, in this case, reducing the capability of the individual to protect himself...

FWIW,

Dale53

Rule3 · #24 11-09-2016, 12:34 PM

How many men and horses where "stopped" by the "old original" 45 Colt and a plain old lead bullet??

A big hole is a big hole.

moosedog · #25 11-09-2016, 01:25 PM

Yes, I agree. Big bullet=big hole. Great theory

max · #26 11-09-2016, 01:43 PM

American Handgunner has an article this month about some .45 full wadcutters.

Engineer1911 · #27 11-09-2016, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom S.

Are you advocating a 4 shot J-frame in 45 Colt?

Or a 3 shot X-frame?

Charlie Foxtrott · #28 11-09-2016, 09:23 PM

This over 20 grains of Winchester 296 powder. This in my Miroku Winchester 1892 carbine. Pretty serious medicine for white tails.

Nemo288 · #29 11-09-2016, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engineer1911

Or a 3 shot X-frame?

Gonna need a welding mask to shoot that thing.
Just a bit of muzzle blast I suspect.

Nemo288 · #30 11-10-2016, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Foxtrott

This over 20 grains of Winchester 296 powder. This in my Miroku Winchester 1892 carbine. Pretty serious medicine for white tails.

Good combination.
Nice gun.
Here's mine.

I use a 300 gr. XTP over 30 grains of IMR4227 in the .445SM
Get 1822 fps out of a 17" Encore.

zeke · #31 11-17-2016, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo288

That's why those and some like it are called "the flying ashtray".
The 44 version has the biggest hollow I have ever seen.

The "flying ashtray" was a 200 gn jacketed (cupro nickel copper jacket?) hp originally loaded in the 45 acp. Still have over 500 of these on hand. They also work in 45 LC.

Speer's GDHP's are bonded, and the 45 250 grain version is purposely made for the low velocities of a mild load 45 LC pistol. The bonded gdhp will hold together for a huge mushroom, while having enough weight to maintain some momentum.