In the next month or so I will be setting up to reload for my .38's. All will be shot out of our S&W "snubbies", all the re-load data I've seen is 4-6" barrels. Does anyone have any real world data or suggestions? I'll be reloading some Hornady 110 grain JHP's and possibly some 158 grain wadcutters. I planned on using Bullseye, not set in stone tough. I reference handloads.com often, my hornady and sierra manuals but can't settle on a good starting point having never loaded .38's before. Any suggestions or thoughts?, Nick

Hi-
I am not a reloader but I am a fan of your bullet choices for .38 snubbies. I carry WCs and use the Hornady 110 grain JHPs as reloads because they slide into the cylinder easily. I am sure you will get plenty of good replies to your questions here, welcome.
-Joe

You make mention of "158 grain wadcutters". If you meant "158 grain semi-wadcutters", then this may be of some help.

In the Lyman Reloading Handbook, 45th edition of 1970, the following is listed for the 158 grain cast bullet using Bullseye Powder in .38 Special cases:

Beginning grains: 2.0 grains - 519 fps
Maximum grains: 3.5 grains - 826 fps

The manual denotes that 3.5 grains of Bullseye powder is a "factory duplication load".

I have used this load for practice since I came on the job and carried a revolver. I still load this cartridge/bullet/powder combination today when shooting my .38 Special revolvers. I find it pleasant to shoot, and with that velocity, it does not heavily lead my firearms.

Please exercise caution when using Bullseye powder, or for that matter any powder that is fast-burning and hence not very dense. The possibility exists for a "double-charge" in the cartridge case. Look for fireworks, damage/destruction to the firearm, and/or serious bodily injury, and a general feeling of dispair. I've only seen one revolver destroyed in this manner. It was from a fellow officer who destroyed his revolver with his own reloads and injured a fellow officer on the line. Prior to placing a bullet into the cartridge mouth of a powder charged case, consider putting the cases in a reloading tray and looking at them with a light to be certain that the powder level in each is identical.

Growing up, people told me to learn from my mistakes. I say that it's better to learn from the mistakes of others.

HTH.

JPJ

Yes, meant semi-wadcutters, thanks for the insight.

Speer #14 has data for loading 110gr JHP/38 Spcl.(+) in a 2" bbl.
using Bullseye: start 4.8gr @ 873mv & max 5.2gr @ 941mv

I have no experience with this load to share with you.

.

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Waiting for the break of day

In general faster powders (Bullseye, Titegroup) are best in target style loads, even though they can be loaded appreciably warm, with care.

Slower powders are best for magnum loads (2400, Acc#9, H110) in magnum pistols.

Medium powders are well, medium. They can be loaded light or they can be pushed to near top velocity. Ex. are Unique, HP 38.

You can use one 'catch all' powder, but you may want to look at what kinds of shooting you are going to be doing with both bullets which are very different animals.

The JHPs are made for high velocity.

Soft, swaged SWCs are good up to about 1000 fps while harder cast bullet can be pushed much faster.

Out of a snub this won't make much difference, but there will be a difference of velocity in that the most you will get out of a snub with SWCs are about 1000 fps while a 110 JHP may hit around 1100 fps.

I've gotten 1000 fps out of a 135 gr. Gold Dot with a stiff load of Unique or Power Pistol.

Comfortable loads run more from 750 to 900 fps.

You can look up the site "Ballistics by the Inch" to get an adjustment for snubs or any length of barrel with commercial ammo to see how the shorter barrel affects the velocity.

So, what velocity range do you think you will be shooting each bullet in???

Early in my reloading 'career' with .38 special, I got by with one fast powder for targets and one medium powder for warmer loads.

If you are going to be shooting a lot of targets, I'd recommend the faster powder. If more 'warm loads' I'd get the medium.

I find that a powder like HP 38 can do about anything with .38 that I want to.

The starting load in any good reference would be the best place to start. There isn't enough difference in light loads to worry much about. The TYPE of frame that your snubby has will make a big difference. I have an airweight mod. 38 with big hogue grips that HURTS when shooting max loads. In my all steel mod 36 the hot ones still hurt. If you've got something like a 'K' frame mod 10, anything will be comfortable. Only the hottest will kick enough to bother a person with skinny wrists.

__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I'm at work for the next week or so and don't have access to any of my data, but I have some of Sierra's 110 grain "Blitz" JHP bullets loaded to a +P configuration for my wife's 3" barrel 60-15. I like that as a defensive load for her as even in a +P load the recoil is easily manageable for her. And Cor Bon uses Sierra bullets for some of their defensive ammo and the Blitz design is very close to the Hornady design. I think I used some HP38 for that load, but I'm not sure. I could also have used some Accurate #2 too. Both work well in 38 Special.

Several years ago we tested 2 smith J-frames ( 442 & 642) and a ruger LCR using different bullet weights . In all 3 guns the 158 gr bullets consistently shot 8-10" high @ 20 yds . When we went to the 110 gr bullets , in a +P factory bullet , POA = POI . YMMV

You need a goal.

Jacketed 110HP's might set you back $20/100. I can't think of any reason to shoot them except to blow up water jugs or make creatures bleed. Not that those aren't worthy goals, if those are your goals. But a 125HP makes more sense on several levels. For instance, mimicking available factory loads, many of which use premium, hi-tech 125-135HP's....far fewer choices in 110. Everybody who sells bulk bullets sells 125's.....110's, not so much.

For plinking at steel plates and punching holes in paper, 125 grain bullets are much more common and can be had for $7/100. The best way to learn to shoot is to shoot a lot. The best way to shoot a lot is to handload cheap bullets. Paper and steel won't care what the bullet construction is or how fast it's going.

158 grain bullets are at the extreme opposite of a 110 in a snubby. Some few people like the so-called FBI load. Other than them, I can't think of a good reason to shoot heavy, slow 158's out of a snubby unless I had some on hand and wanted to get rid of them. They, too, can be bought for $7-8/100, but if you choose them over a 125 I'd have to wonder why.

Start with a goal, and the choices in bullets and powder become narrower and better defined.

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Carry.."hope" isn't a strategy

In my J frame snub nose with a warm 38 spl. loading with Bullseye
and a 110gr JHP my chrony got 824fps.

The Winchester +P loading is around 875fps out of a snub nose.

This can be reached with Unique powder and even match the Cor-Bon
fps load if needed, in a sound weapon. I stopped at 996fps.

Since you say this is your first time with loading 38s, I strongly suggest you load up your lead bullets with HP38 or Bullseye if you prefer, using load tables and pick loads near the middle of the data. Don't worry about speed for now. Load and shoot 100 of them out of your lightweight stubby and see how your hand feels.


Personally, for range plinking, I consider jacketed bullets in .38 a waste of money, and the ballistics of the light .38 bullets out of a stubby are disappointing. For range plinking, a 148gr lead WC is very accurate and a joy to shoot.

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Science plus Art

Agreed. Either a 148-grain wadcutter or a 158-grain LSWC will do everything that .38 Spl is capable of doing, and well.

Nick, for punching holes in paper, I load a 158 grain Plated SWC pushed by 3.5 grains of Bullseye and get excellent results in all my .38s and .357s regardless of barrel length. I've found this to be an accurate and comfortable load.

I'd skip the 110s. You can't get them going fast enough, especially out of a snub. I'd stick with LSWCHP 158s. They move pretty good.

The old treasury load (110 JHP +P+) moved about 1220 fps in a 4". Buffalo Bore's FBI load (158 LSWCHP +P) moves about 1150 in a 4". My handloads make 1100. I'll take the lead 158s (at that velocity) any day.

Low mass + low velocity = pissed-off bad guy

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an actual conservative

It would really be good to know what the POA/POI with a certain weight bullet at some velocity for any model gun with fixed sights. Figuring it out for yourself can take a lot of ammo.

Apparently, the J frames sights are set up more for hotter jhp loads that most people would buy for SD. That's nice, but they could include that in the specs.

__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I have a J frame model 36 3"bbl and load with 158 gr LSWC and Bullseye 3.3 gr very little recoil. My K frame model 15 4"bbl 148gr DEWC and Bullseye 2.9 gr. no recoil. Tried HP-38, WST, CFE. Next best to Bullseye is 700X IMO
NOTE: If you are reloading WC and SWC, get a 2nd bullet seating die dedicated to either one. WC gets very, very light crimp and don't bell the cartridge mouth too much. When finished, be sure they drop into the cylinder. Have fun reloading and shooting

If you do get some lead 158gr bullets..........
the recoil will be different from a J frame "Airweight", steel frame or a larger k frame.

My J frame handles the 158gr lead pretty well but it has 21oz. of weight, being of a steel frame.
Light loads start at 570fps up to a standard 2" loading of around 720fps. 740fps is getting into a
medium heavy load and 780fps is a low +P with 800fps getting into +P country.

A factory Federal 158gr RN is stated at 755fps in a 4" but in my
snub nose it did only 648fps. Those full load FBI loads will get
around 800 to 850 in a snub nose depending on the weapon.
I had one brand only hit 788fps.

For general plinking the manuals set for around 755fps will work
great for you in your snub nose for practice but you may want to
start a little lower to see how the recoil is, at first.
Have fun.

I regularly load and shoot two different rounds through my 640 Pro and 642. Either a 148gr LWC with 2.8gr of Bullseye, or a 158gr LSWC with 3.0 grains of Bullseye.

Both are excellent rounds. They are both light recoil in the heavier 640 and a bit snappy in the light 642 but very manageable. When I carry I load up with the 158gr rounds.

The 110's only because I'm a couple weeks away from buying a Hornady LnL AP and get the 500 free bullets, of course that's all they offer in the .38 category. Not stuck on it though, I can get other bullets with their offer. The 158's only because a buddy of mine gave me around 1000-1100 SWC 158's a few years ago.
Not stuck on either one. My dad and I go out shooting at least once a week, me with the 637 air weight, him with a model 36. And now and then with the wife and her 642 PC. (On a side note, can't take the daughter's 642 Pro-series out because I had to send it back to Smith within a week of getting it). But anyway, in the last 2 months we've shot around 750 rounds or so through our .38's and I was looking for a good starting point. I kind of agree with you about the 110's. We have been mainly shooting 125's and 130's and it handles them fine. Some 158's and some 125 +P's also but the 125-130's are more comfortable. Thanks

If you want a very light recoil load for the 16oz. you might look into the
lead 125gr bullets.
Either truncated or Cowboy RN from 530fps up to 630fps make for a nice light target load.
I have ad it up to 733fps with Green Dot but any load around 600fps is accurate and enjoyable in my J frame.
Recoil is less than the 148gr target loading.