Lee Factory Crimp Die - Swaged bullets

38SPL HV

38SPL HV

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Heck, went to range the other day. My standard 38 Spl +P 158 gr load (Speer LSWC) with 5.6 grs Power Pistol crimped with the Lee FCD did not nearly print as well as when I used my standard roll crimp die. Could be that the Lee FCD is undersizing the swaged bullet.

Any thoughts?
 
If you're feeling any resistance from the FCD's carbide ring, when you insert it to crimp, then I'd say yes, it could.

The couple FCDs I have (40 S&W & 41 Mag) that always try to "re-size" the cartridge, because they have a smaller diameter carbide ring than they should, have been removed, & I don't have to worry about that side effect any more. All my other FCDs are sized okay.

.
 
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rh73 said:
Easy enough to measure a bullet before loading, then pull it and check after.
Click to expand...

I've actually done this and and found that simply pressing the bullet into a case without doing anything about crimping will reduce the size of the bullet by 0.0004 inch. Pulling the bullet after the press and Lee FCD operation produced a reduction between 0.0004 and 0.00045 inch. So, in this case (45 ACP) the effect of that carbide sizing ring was between zero and 50 millionths of an inch.

I will also note that it's typical to feel that carbide crimp ring straighten out the flare in a handgun case when crimping with the Lee FCD. I suspect this is the reason why some people claim they will swage the bullet down in size. I also feel that if I am not shooting well on a particular day that it's because I am just not shooting well on that day. Because every time I've wanted to blame a bad batch of undersized bullets my micrometers have shot that theory to pieces.
 
Take the bullet itself and see if it'll drop freely through the carbide ring. The only Lee Factory Crimp die I have is a .44 Magnum and it only hits resistance at the case flare. Resized brass and bullets only will drop in without any resistance.
 
Scooter123...great analysis...probably me. First time I shot in months and with a new revolver.
 
Confederate Tyrant said:
Take the bullet itself and see if it'll drop freely through the carbide ring.
Resized brass and bullets only will drop in without any resistance.
Click to expand...

Resized brass's diameter is smaller than brass that has been expanded & has a bullet seated in it.

Brass adds ~.022 - .024" to the diameter of a seated bullet. Using either of these to test your FCD's diameter isn't doing to give you meaningful information because if neither will pass thru freely that FCD is grossly undersized.

. .

The 40 S&W FCD's inner diameter (ID), mentioned above, measured .420" using my pin gages. The 41 Magnum FCD measured .432". Using nominal diameter jacketed bullets they were already tight. Using lead bullets, that are typically .001-.002" larger in diameter only made them worse.

My 45 Colt FCD's ID measures .478" & my 44 Mag FCD measures .452" ID. Nothing I load in them ever makes more than light contact with it's carbide ring. The problem dies made contact the full length of the bullet, that was clearly visible too, not just at the flared case mouth.

Some FCDs just don't seem to have the same clearances. Oversized bullets make it worse.

.
 
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The FCD was resizing my lead .452" lead bullets down to .451". If I ever load jacketed bullets for my 1911 I might use the FCD again.
 
Consider taper crimping swaged bullets. They are intended for light target loads, a heavy roll crimp usually isn't necessary. Swaged bullets normally don't have a crimp groove, so a heavy roll crimp is creating one, deforming the bullet.
 
Yes the FCD can and does swage down some bullets. I had an FCD for a while (it now resides in a land fill somewhere in So. Oregon) that I got out of curiosity for my .44 Magnum reloads. It swaged down my perfectly sized .432" bullets to approx. .430". I didn't take time to try and figger why, (perhaps a thicker walled case?) I just knocked the carbide ring out. The resulting crimp was uneven and not up to the quality of a plain old roll crimp die. I went back to my Redding Profile Crimp die and just recently got a Lee collet crimp die...
 
BLUEDOT37 said:
Resized brass's diameter is smaller than brass that has been expanded & has a bullet seated in it.

Brass adds ~.022 - .024" to the diameter of a seated bullet. Using either of these to test your FCD's diameter isn't doing to give you meaningful information because if neither will pass thru freely that FCD is grossly undersized.
Click to expand...
If the bullet passes through easily, then that would indicate the bullet wouldn't get resized during the crimp stage, right? Or are you referring to the bullet getting squeezed inside the case after it's loaded?
 
Lee at one time advertised their factory crimp die as being able to crimp the case into a jacketed bullet without cannelure. I'd bet they could easily deform a swaged lead bullet.
 
My tests and a few of my friend's have shown that they normally are either on par or have slightly improved the grouping of the rds loaded with such.But then,I must admit that we've ran tests only with .38Spl WC target loads.Dunno what it might do to heavily crimped heavy loads.
Qc
 
When I first started using a FCD with 38 spl I pulled the bullet. It consistently measured .358, now with a larger bore than that it could be a problem.
 
Confederate Tyrant said:
If the bullet passes through easily, then that would indicate the bullet wouldn't get resized during the crimp stage, right?
Or are you referring to the bullet getting squeezed inside the case after it's loaded?
Click to expand...

Yes, that's the problem, when it occurs. The assembled cartridge's mouth's diameter; bullet dia. + case thickness(s) (ie: .357" + .022" = .379"), gets "re-sized" when it passes thru the FCD's carbide ring, at the mouth of the die, before the crimping process even occurs, if it's diameter is smaller than the assembled cartridge's diameter.

.
 
Qc Pistolero said:
My tests and a few of my friend's have shown that they normally are either on par or have slightly improved the grouping of the rds loaded with such.But then,I must admit that we've ran tests only with .38Spl WC target loads.Dunno what it might do to heavily crimped heavy loads.
Qc
Click to expand...
Was it a side by side test using ammo that was crimped with an FCD vs. a standard roll crimp die vs a taper crimp?
 
I have always felt a little uncomfortable using lead bullets with Lee's carbide FCD. When Lee came out with their collet crimper for 357 magnum, the first thing that I did was buy one and turn down the spacer ring to crimp 38 specials (I did the same thing for 44 specials).
The collet crimps the case just barely below the case mouth, just like a factory crimp, and doesn't touch any other part of the case.

Serendipity.
_______________________
I don't have Alzheimer's- My wife had me tested.
 
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Confederate Tyrant said:
Take the bullet itself and see if it'll drop freely through the carbide ring.
Click to expand...
I think that the problem being discussed is the combination of brass with seated bullet swaging a 357-358 grain bullet. I wouldn't be surprised if Lee uses a slightly different set of max specs for their 44 die.
_______________________
I don't have Alzheimer's- My wife had me tested.
 
You don't use a FCD with lead bullets. It swages the bullet to a smaller diameter.
 
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