My coated bullet supplier says to seat and crimp in two steps so as to not scar the coating.
I'm going to be loading some coated .41 mag bullets with a roll crimp on my single stage and wonder if this is really a problem. I don't want to add another step if I don't have to.
I've been shooting coated bullets for a while but have been loading them on a progressive that seats and crimps in two steps.

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Fools despise wisdom.

Need LYMAN M die in the correct caliper for lead or coated bullets

If you're going to do it on a single stage and do the seating and crimping in two steps then look at the Lee 4 die Carbide sets.They include the crimp die.

I use 8 of them on an indexing Lee Classic 4 hole Turret Press,Lee Hand Press and a Lee Single Stage.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

i load 38spl, 44spl and 45ACP coated with RCBS seating dies, no problems.
jim

Usually when a manufacturer suggests a two step seat and crimp there is a good reason. I use a taper crimp die when crimping plated bullets even for revolver ammo.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

What a bunch of nonsense.

Do they have a crimp groove? If so then just crimp just as you would a regular lead bullet with whatever dies you normally use.

Same with GOOD plated bullets you can crimp those also. They are not made of fine china.

I have roll crimped the snot out of both as a test.

Test a few, crimp and then pull them see for yourself.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Though I generally crimp as a separate step, I have found that the bullets with the deep crimp groove can usually be seat/crimped in 1 step w/o problems.
I also take care to ensure that the inside of all case mouths are deburred.
As stated above, I have added Lyman M dies to all my handgun die sets.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

This is good advice.

Envision what his happening otherwise.

• When you seat and crimp with the same die, the top of the bullet meets the seater stem and begins to get pushed into the case.
• As the case continues to rise, the bullet is pushed further into the case.
• As the case continues to rise as the case encounters the crimping shoulder in the die, the bullet is still in contact with the seater stem (since it is screwed in place and doesn't "release")
• This means the bullet is still being pushed into the case as the crimping shoulder forms the crimp.

If the bullet has a soft coating, you ideally want the bullet's movement into the case to have stopped before you crimp the case mouth into the side of the bullet.

You can seat all your bullets to the desired depth and then back out the bullet seating stem and lower the die to form the crimp. But, if you don't want to lose the adjustment you may have carefully made, a second seater or a dedicated crimp die is inexpensive and convenient.

I don't shoot a lot of 38 Special, so for it I have a Lee Speed Die (no longer made) that puts the entire reloading process into a single die. But for crimping, I break with tradition and seat my bullets to the cannelure and then use a separate taper crimp die to put a firm crimp pushing the case mouth into the cannelure. Easy inexpensive and I don't lose my adjustment each time.

Not in the case of powder-coated bullets.

Since the bullet is still moving when the case mouth is pushed into the side of the bullet when the crimp is formed in a conventions seat/crimp operation, the resulting incision into what is essentially a thick coating of paint can cause it to not only be penetrated by the crimp but to roll up separating it from the bullet.

Sounds like a lot of care used in making those loads.........

are you shooting in the Olympics ?? !!

I don't big deal plated or coated bullets to be used just for target practice..........

but I don't "Roll Crimp" my bullets, either.

Thanks for this reply. I may not have made myself clear in the OP, but the two replies by hdwhit address my question. When I load on my single stage I normally seat and crimp in one step to save time. It looks like that may tear the coating. I guess the next question is whether that tear would cause leading? I guess I'll load some both ways and see if the tear is significant.

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Fools despise wisdom.

If the bullet has a crimp groove, no issue. Like plated that do not have crimp grooves, you are likely to break the coating/plating crimping aggressively. Not as much of an issue with coated as plating. Properly applied, the coatings are pretty tough & will stay on the bullet. Plating, not so much. I have seen over crimped bullets shot at targets up close throwing little slivers of plating all over the target.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Good to know. I'll be shooting powder coated bullets.

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Fools despise wisdom.

Well once again there is the QUESTION

Are these Powder Coated bullets (ie paint)

or are the Hi Tec Polymer coated.???

Yes, there is a difference and as I already said if it has a crimp groove it is no different than a regular cast lead bullet. Which it is. You are not going to cut the coating as the bullet seats and crimps .05" or less

Why not just tell us what bullet it is rather than have us guess??

With Polymer coated, I have smashed them with a hammer, put them in a vise and torched them with a propane torch. Crimping is not going to hurt them unless they did a bad job of coating. It ain't rocket science.

Polymer coated smashed flat on concrete floor(on the paper, no flakes). Think a crimp will hurt it?

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Still Running Against the Wind

Many reloaders (a lot) don't adjust their seating/crimping well enough to prevent shaving the bullet or bulging the case. I have been reloading for some time and still prefer to separate seating and crimping, but I like reloading and am in no hurry. When seating and crimping in one step the die adjustment is critical; too soon of a crimp the bullet gets shaved and the case gets bulged (crimp applied as bullet is moving) I reload my coated (PCed) bullets just like I load my cast bullets; same methods, same load data....

Hi-Tek coated - remember it was the bullet supplier who said not to seat and crimp in one step.

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Fools despise wisdom.

Well we really can not commit if we do not know who told you this. If it is secret than fine. Do what they tell you.

Really very simple, as I said, test some. Seat and crimp in one step and then pull the bullet see what happens.

You are the reloader so it's up to you, all I or anyone else can say is what they experienced.

I use MBC and the smashed one is from Bayou bullets, There is really no difference in them.

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Still Running Against the Wind

All I know is that when I stopped crimping my Hi Tek coated bullets, the accuracy drastically improved.

Guess you don't shoot many magnum handgun loads then?

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Still Running Against the Wind

Sounds like generic advise. You can put me in the "if it's got a crimp groove it's O.K. to do it in the same die" camp. I do. No problems.

I use the same methods for seating and crimping all my PCed, Hi-Tec, and plated bullets as I do for my cast bullets. I use aa god flare, and a roll or taper crimp, depending on the presence of a cannalure, or crimp groove or smooth side...

PCed and Hy-Tec bullets do differ in the coating, but should be treated the same...

Nope.

Maybe Shakespeare was talking about magnum handguns when he wrote, "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"?

Who are referring to as an "idiot"?

and then is heard no more

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Still Running Against the Wind

I always seat and crimp in two separate operations no matter what type bullet, rifle or pistol.

And since the majority of reloaders do not trim their pistol brass guess what happens when seating and crimping in the same operation.

And if you wet tumble with SS media the case mouths will be peened and have sharp edges. And this plays heck with plated bullets and with coated bullets it would be worse. (even with a Lyman type "M" die)

You were possibly over crimping, which often reduces bullet dia slightly. Even 0.001" smaller can hurt accuracy.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I am also a seat & crimp in separate steps. I just find it more uniform.
As to wet/ss pin Cleaning. I find it smooths out the case mouth, not deform ot, but it may be pin size related.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I bought 500 once fired military Winchester 9mm cases and wet tumbled all of them. If I did nothing to the case mouth when expanding with the Lyman "M" expander I was getting very small brass flakes inside the case mouth.

When the expander entered the case mouth it was breaking off the edges of the peening bur. I ended up using a deburing tool before expanding to not get the small brass flakes. It may have been the way these cases were made and crimped.

Below on the left is a twice fired and trimmed case after leaving the cases in my wet tumbler too long. Before wet tumbling with SS media this case mouth was trimmed flat and debured. Meaning the case mouth was "normal" looking as it should be after trimming. The case on the right is brand new as it came out of the factory Winchester bag. So factory tumbling is even harder on the case mouth. I lost the original size photo of these cases and it showed far more detail of the case mouth.



I now put less brass in when wet tumbling and even weigh the cases batches. The more brass you put in the tumbler the longer it takes to get the brass clean. And the longer tumbling times are pounding and peening the case mouths a lot more. I now try to not wet tumble over two hours

Using a vibratory tumbler with walnut media does not peen the case mouths like wet tumbling. So I use the vibratory tumbler on my pistol cases and when wet tumbling rifles cases I trim the cases after wet tumbling. It is my understanding its not the media size but the heavy cases hitting the case mouth that does the peening.

Its amazing what a closeup macro photos can show you. Below is a brand new Savage button rifled barrel and look a all the speed bumps the bullet has to travel over.



And below a custom hand lapped bore.

Maybe try diff pin size & certainly no longer than 30min. My case mouths never looked like that.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Have always seated bullets and crimped in seperate actions. When I changed to shooting plated bullets in 45ACP the bullet supplier gave me some advice, to crimp only hard enough to form a light ring on the plating (required crimping the bullet then pulling it again a few times to check). These liars are much more accurate in my gun/hand than cast it swayed lead. So I reset all of my dpcrimpung cues the same way. Lead, coated or plated.

But I still always seat and crimp selerately. Always will.

I love a good "crimp" thread with coated or plated bullets. When melting plated or coated bullets to make ingots of lead for bullet casting, I have found the plating or coating to be tough stuff that is not harmed by "crimping".

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S&WHF 366

I used Hornady Nitride Dies. I was told to use Lyman M Dies for plated bullets. We are setting up a DL550 that must pickup a few missing parts to finish it.

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

I'm sure you meant Nitride for your dies. Nitrile is used on "rubber" gloves...

I don't really crimp any 9mm or 45 ACP ammo. I just use a taper crimp die to straighten out any flare in the case. And I use a plain flare for my cast, PCed, Hy-Tec, or Plated bullets. Never any problem..