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.451 lead bullet sizing die?

Fla_Sun

Fla_Sun

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Anyone here using a .451 sizing die for 1911 pistol shooting?
I have always used a .452 but an old dog can sometimes learn a new trick.
The BHN for the bullets in question are 16 and 24 which I know will not obturate at normal 45 ACP pressures.
 
IMO, going the wrong way. Unless you have a super tight chamber that wont take 0.452", you are almost never wrong going bigger, for accuracy or leading. I also feel no need to use such a hard alloy at 45acp pressures. even near pure swaged lead shoot well.
 
Thanks for the reply fredj338.
I am denuding all my store bought Missouri (BHN 16) and Laser Cast (BHN 24) lead bullets of lube then coating them with Hy-Tek. They have to be sized as a last process.
Unfortunate but necessary for transition from outdoor to indoor range.
One 1911 has a match barrel. May try both sizing dies.
 
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Generally, .451 is the diameter recommended for jacketed bullets, while .452 is recommended for cast lead bullets. The original military spec for the 230 grain .45 FMJ bullet diameter is 0.4495" to 0.4505".

Current SAAMI .45 ACP specs are 0.4520"-.003" for jacketed bullets, and 0.4530"-.003" for lead bullets
 
I have .451" and .452" size dies for my SAECO / Redding lubrisizer. There are bound to be exceptions, but I've found .452" cast bullets are more accurate than .451", even in revolvers.
 
I don't think I've ever used a bullet harder than 12 BHN in my 45 ACP handguns. I size my cast bullets to .452" and sometimes a hair bigger (mebbe they come out to .4525"). But this has worked quite well in my 1911 and Ruger P90...

FWIW; My rifle cast bullets don't usually go over 16-17 BHN and work fine in my Garand, and 7.62x54r. I did some experimenting with some 9mm bullets (125 gr. RNFP) up to 18 BHN, but found not much need for bullets that hard in my 3, 9mm pistols...
 
Fla_Sun said:
Thanks for the reply fredj338.
I am denuding all my store bought Missouri (BHN 16) and Laser Cast (BHN 24) lead bullets of lube then coating them with Hy-Tek. They have to be sized as a last process.
Unfortunate but necessary for transition from outdoor to indoor range.
One 1911 has a match barrel. May try both sizing dies.
Click to expand...

I would melt them all down & recast myself. You can size after PC, done right, it isn't a problem & I would still want 0.452".
 
I can't remember for sure, but seems like I may have tried hard cast bullets at one time. If so, there apparently was no advantage over 12-13 BHN wheelweight alloy.
 
I have both .451 and .452 sizing dies. I've never been able to tell any difference in accuracy when shooting hard cast bullets in my 1911's. My BHN 10-12 bullets are always sized at .452.
With coated bullets I've never had any leading.
 
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Fla_Sun said:
I have both .451 and .452 sizing dies. I've never been able to tell any difference in accuracy when shooting hard cast bullets in my 1911's. My BHN 10-12 bullets are always sized at .452.
With coated bullets I've never had any leading.
Click to expand...

10-12 isnt really hard cast. Some comm outfits are doing 20-22bhn, that is where undersized bullets suck, especially in low pressure rds. You almost never go wrong with a bigger bullet. My 9mm stuff is all sized 0.357".
 
Fla_Sun said:
Thanks for the reply fredj338.
I am denuding all my store bought Missouri (BHN 16) and Laser Cast (BHN 24) lead bullets of lube then coating them with Hy-Tek. They have to be sized as a last process.
Unfortunate but necessary for transition from outdoor to indoor range.
One 1911 has a match barrel. May try both sizing dies.
Click to expand...


I removed the lube from a batch of MBC bullets (230 gr RN 45 ACP) and Powder Coated them. I did not resize any off them and to me, it makes no difference
.001 in bullet is like How many Angels can Dance on the Head of a Pin.

Yes, I have several"match grade" barrels in 1911's.
 
Rule3 said:
I removed the lube from a batch of MBC bullets (230 gr RN 45 ACP) and Powder Coated them. I did not resize any off them and to me, it makes no difference
.001 in bullet is like How many Angels can Dance on the Head of a Pin.

Yes, I have several"match grade" barrels in 1911's.
Click to expand...

I concur with Rule3, this last summer I pulled all the tumble lube off around
150 lbs of bullets (124gr 9mm, 180gr .401, 158gr .358, 230gr.452) and
powder coated them.

The resultant coated bullets didn't need another run thru the sizer.
They load, shoot and clean up great. I wish I'd known about the process
of powder coating a gallon of Alox ago.
 
rockquarry said:
Not always so, but .001" in bullet diameter can make a measurable difference in accuracy.
Click to expand...

Can, yes anything "can", But DOES it.?? In what quantified documented statically valid proof or test?

With so many other variables at play, which one is it.??;)

Unless they are tested from a locked ransom rest, with verified powder, and exact same brass and bullet weight I would love to see the actual results.:)

are-we-gonna-split-hairs-here.jpg
 
Rule3-
I've personally found .001" makes a difference in .380 ACP, .38 Special, 9mm, .357 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, and .45 ACP, and perhaps others I can't remember at the moment.

When developing cast bullets loads for a gun I'm not familiar with, a Colt Officer's Model Match in .38 Special for example, I might shoot groups with .356", .357", and .358, maybe even .359" bullets. Seldom I don't find one diameter that will shoot more accurately than the others. I shoot groups from a good rest at 25 yards.

I'm always eager to learn and still have a ways to go. Your cast bullet experience may far surpass mine and I'm willing to consider your advice. However, I've found .001" does make a difference more often than not.
 
Rule3 said:
Can, yes anything "can", But DOES it.?? In what quantified documented statically valid proof or test?

With so many other variables at play, which one is it.??;)

Unless they are tested from a locked ransom rest, with verified powder, and exact same brass and bullet weight I would love to see the actual results.:)
Click to expand...

While 0.001" may not affect accuracy enough for a shooter to know, it depends on your accuracy requirement. It will affect leading though, & that can certainly mess with accuracy. BTW, you can test ammo for a accuracy without a Ransom. I find proper bench technique just as accurate out to 25yd, just not repeatable for long strings. Even a good offhand shooter can test ammo out to 25y & tell an accuracy diff.
 
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For decades used .451 with clip on wheel weight alloy,( Lyman Manual gave .451 as size they used ) fast forward from dark ages internet says .452 is correct. I bought .452 to try out....actually no difference noted, accurate loads and no leading with both.
I do have one 45 acp revolver with tight throats that will not fully chamber rounds with .452 size bullets ....it prefers .451 and is extremely accurate with them . Again , no leading.
Gary
 
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