Cold barrel shot

IAM Rand

IAM Rand

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I have been reloading for 300 WM. I have a Savage 111 in a Hogue stock. I am reloading Barnes TTSX and TSX to find a good load. Both are 130gr. I am getting great results. Both are giving me sub moa at 100yrds. What I am seeing that concerns me though is that my first shot will be outside the following shots. I know that the first shot might be different than the following but, it is a concern to me that I either have to sight in the rifle for the first shot then have to adjust for follow up shots or I have to sight in for the grouping and worry about my first shot.

On my last grouping, the first shot was 2" low and 2" to the right.

Am I missing something?
 
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OKFC05 said:
First thing I'd check is that NO oil or cleaner is left in the bore after cleaning. I'd expect bedding problems to keep walking the shots, but maybe?
Click to expand...

Shouldn't be bedding problems. New Hogue stock with the aluminum bedding. Just the one shot is outside the following shots. I will check on the bore being dry. I usually run patches until dry. I might skip cleaning and see if that changes things.
 
If it will used as a hunting rifle then the cold barrel is important for the first shot but that can be minimized by knowing how the gun shoots with a slightly fouled bore. It takes time to figure out how your rifle shoots cold/clean/dirty vs. warm/clean/dirty.
 
I'd guess 50% of rifles do this after cleaning, regardless of whether the bore is dry or lightly lubricated. Some take more than one round to foul the barrel to the point where the shots are all in a group. If you're rifle is prone to the "first shot out" syndrome, never hunt with a clean bore.
 
Make sure alll the stock screws and scope mounts are tight.

Leaving your bore slightly fouled isn't a horrible thing.

Why are you shooting the 130 gr bullets in a 300 Wm. I am a heavier bullet fan.

The Barnes 175 BTs have a ballistic coefficent of .508 where the 130s are only .35. That initial velocity'S ballistic advantage is gone by around 300 yds and the heavier bullets will out preform at longer ranges in both accuracy and energy.

A 130 starting out at 3500 will be at 2485 at 300yds and drop 5.5 inches with a 200 yd zero at 400 yds it 2193 and 16,8", 35.8 at 500yds

A 190 BT starting out at 3100 will be at 2624 at 300yds and drop 5.8 with a 200 yd zero at 400yds its 2475 and 16.9", 33.8 at 500yds

The heavier bullets suffer less wind drift.
 
When I actively shot NRA Service Rifle matches, we never shot out of a clean, dry bore.....On the way to a match, (if we had just cleaned the barrel) we would all pull off the highway where no one could see us and run three rounds just to foul the barrel so that we would not encounter the first shot problem.
My hunting rifles are never carried with a cold, clean, dry barrel either.

After sight in...they stay that way until the end of season or until I tripped and jammed the muzzle full of something....usually have the muzzle taped with electricians tap to prevent that however.....

Randy
 
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Fire a few rounds and then sight in. Nothing mysterious about it. Sparkling clean bores aren't the most accurate.
 
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steelslaver said:
Why are you shooting the 130 gr bullets in a 300 Wm. I am a heavier bullet fan.
Click to expand...

I will work on heavier loads but, was going with the 130gr to use on Antelope and deer. Didn't see the need for a +/- 170gr to use on smaller game. I try to keep my shots under 400yrds.:D

Never though about shooting with a dirty barrel. I have always cleaned after every shoot and before I went hunting. Guess now I have to be a dirty hunter. My groupings are awesome. Sub-moa on my way to just one big hole.

After shooting, would it be okay to just run a dry patch though once? Should I just stop being so anal and go with it. My last time out I put 20 rounds though it.
 
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Most rifles will have a point where accuracy drops off as the barrel fouls, only by keeping notes and lots of range time will you determine the number.
 
In my 300 Win Mag, the most accurate bullet is a 200 grain Sierra GameKing! I shoot all distances and all game and targets with the same load. I could see using one of the all copper bullets for Federal and State lands that require Non-toxic ammo, but I haven't found a Barns all copper that out shot a Sierra GameKing or MatchKing of similar BC and Lead always has better sectional density! (but that isn't allowed sometimes)

One MOA at 100 yards is fine for close hunting, but not really all that accurate (It just means you and the gun didn't suck!) With 175 and above most 300 WM rifles will produce 1/4 or less MOA at 100 yards.

As to your aluminum bedding block or pillar bedding, you need specific torque on the action screws. They often are different on the two screws. I would say start with 45-50 inch pounds (usually higher by 5 inch pounds on the front screw. 65 inch pounds is usually the max, or you may shear a screw! Harbor Freight has very affordable dial torque wrenches you'll want 1/4" drive and bits that fit your screws (I usually replace the screws with Allen or Torx head screws)

Keep notes!

Ivan
 
I've tried many bullets in a .300 H&H Magnum Model 70 Winchester and a Remington 700 5R .300 Winchester Magnum. Done the same with a couple of Model 70s in .30-06. The 200 grain Sierra is an excellent bullet and quite accurate in all of them, but I've found the Barnes 150 TTSX BT is more accurate. Recoil is noticeably less as well, an important consideration in magnum rifles.

I'm not generally a fan of light bullets in .30 caliber rifles, but I find accuracy more important than bullet weight as long as the bullet is a stout one. It pays to try lots of bullets, but I've found the .30 150 TTSX BT to be a very versatile and accurate bullet.
 
I never trust a cold bore shot from a cleaned & oiled barrel. It seems it always walks a bit.
 
I'd expect a 130 gr bullet to spoil a whole lot of meat. A heavier bullet moving slower won't do this.

As to grouping, sometimes that depends upon the individual barrel. I have one old rifle that puts the first round out of a cold, clean barrel 2+ inches high. The next round splits the difference between CCB shot and the group it produces when fouled. All the rest are in the group. I have several other rifles that put everything into the same group.

Now, if your first round seems to wander about the group, I'd think the problem just might be you.

Since yours appear to be one that throws the first round out you might consider cleaning your rifle as usual and then firing one fouling shot before heading home. If you hunt out of a base camp, you can always fire that fouling shot the night before you start hunting. With my old rifle, I just allow for it.
 
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Some precision rifle shooters advocate swabbing your bore with collodial graphite (commonly encountered as Lock-Eze), and allowing the carrier to evaporate before the first shot on a clean, dry bore. They say that this simulates having fired a fouling shot or two. I can't speak to this personally, but I have seen it advocated by some very serious - and successful - shooters.
 
Ivan the Butcher said:
One MOA at 100 yards is fine for close hunting, but not really all that accurate (It just means you and the gun didn't suck!) With 175 and above most 300 WM rifles will produce 1/4 or less MOA at 100 yards.
Click to expand...

I have had really good luck with Barnes. When I was younger we would use lead core but, switched somewhere along the way. Just never felt the need to switch back. Took a New Mexico Pronghorn at 460 +/- with my 7mm mag 145 gr LRX Barnes.

If I drop the first shot on my last 2 times out I would be at .569 moa with the TTSX and .424 moa with TSX. I would like to think that neither of us suck.:rolleyes:

Barnes does make a 175 gr LRX that I might try. I was under the assumption that the bigger the bullet the more damage would be done to the meat. Might have to rethink that.:D
 
When I get into camp, I fire three to see if my rifle is still on.
Adjust as needed and then run a "Dry" patch down the barrel..........

No more cleaning until there is meat on the ground.
Works for me.

Half of my rifles like a clean barrel the other half like fowled.
You just need to learn what each rifle likes and take notes.

I like the Winchester 130gr for my 270 but I had a factory box of 20 Remington 130gr. Bronze Points
take 16 deer out of a cold barrel, in wide open Nevada range shooting and black tail (2) in Calif. in the 60's & 70.s
 
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Thanks all. My rifle is still dirty except I did run a dry patch down the barrel. Now I just need to take it out again and see where I am.
 
In most cases a clean cold bore shot will differ in POI from a fouled cold bore shot and a post first shot group.

IMO you should know what each will do and adjust your POA for each circumstance. It's not all that hard to do, you already know your rifle and ammo will shoot 2" low and 2" to the right clean and cold. @100 yards that won't effect the 8-10" kill some on a deer but you can always hold off those 2" with a cold clean barrel.

My hunting rifle is 1" low and 2" right cold and clean and only 1" and 1" fouled and cold so I make the adjustments to POA accordingly. (not that it would matter in a deer under 100 yards out.) I rarely carry a clean bore during hunting season but it is a cold barrel most times.
 
Nevada's got the recipe that works for me too.This is something us cast bullet shoothers have discovered(some longer ago than I).
I'm a firm believer of bore conditionning.
Besides,I really think that we clean our bores too often.I can't remember who wrote this but I've read it more than once;more good barrels are ruined from cleaning than from shooting.
Now,did he(they)mean from cleaning the improper way(stainless rod rubbing inside the barrel,no muzzle crown protector)?
As far as I'm concerned,I don't clean my rifles after every day out shooting.I usually do it after a few hundred rds .After that,I know I'll have to shoot between 3 to 10 rds to bring the bore back to where it was when shooting good groups.
 
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