Need some 12 Ga. light trap loads

Went shooting the other day and found out the old body does not stand up to heavy trap load like days of old and since my neck operation.

I have some light 7/8 and 1 oz. loads for singles but have lots of 1 1/8 wads to use and
would like to know if any of you have a 1 1/8 oz load below 18 ft/lbs of recoil with a 8 lb shot gun,
using either Red Dot or Green Dot powders.
My minimum RD load is 16.0grs and the GD is at 17.8 grs right now.
I load w209, Rem STS and Down Range F8 or cb3118 wads right now, for my 24-27 Handicap stations.

Anything in the 1090 to 1125 fps area would be great.........
if it is doable. Just never loaded this low before.
Might just be a pipe dream but have heard the Win lite at 980 fps works.
Thanks for any help.

Have you try to use some over shot cards to build up for the load you loading.Just do not need to buy the over shot cards .make your own out of cracker box with a 3/4" gasket hole punch. Also if it takes too much cards you can go to a farm fleet store and get 1/8" cork gasket maker to cut some to make up the space. That is what I done when I made up some 1/2 oz loads for 12ga. for 2 3/4" . I also cut the hull down to 1 3/4" to 2" with a different wad. but with the use of 1/2 oz of shot .This winter I will work on make up some short 20 ga shells. Maybe the same length I did with the 12 ga

When I had a load that used less volume than the wads capacity, I would add two or three dried beans. Once you determine the number necessary for a good crimp, drop the beans in the bottom of the shot cup.

I used to load all my 12 gauge with Green Dot but winter shooting in Ohio, the cold lost too much velocity (as much a 300 fps on very cold days) So I switched to Tightwad for 7/8 and 1oz at 1300 fps and Clays for slower velocities.

My old bones don't handle the recoil any more, so I shoot Sporting Clays with 28 and 410 now days. It took about a year but my 410 scores are now at what I used to get with 12 gauge (in the 70-75% area)and on a good day 80%!

I am an unusual shooter, I don't compete with anyone (well maybe I can't help competing with my big brother) so if someone has a higher score than me, so what. If they insist on bragging how they broke the most birds on the squad with a 12 gauge, I tell them they have twice or more shot than I do, so to tie me they need twice the score! After 2, 3, or even 4 Fifty bird rounds, they are so beat down tired from recoil, I've made up for my score and "win" the day! Prize money is zero, so why beat yourself up.

2 Springs ago I shot in a 10 week league, I used my wife's 391 20 gauge. I was 4th overall and on the first place team and the only 20 gauge in 125 shooters! And set a new personal best! I got $45 in prize money, so it only cost $205 and ammo (another $180+/-), boy did I win bigtime!

Ivan

Here is a load I developed for a young gal of 12. She is turning out to be a great shooter. Gave this to her great uncle and he loads 'em sh shoots 'em in a Perazzi O/U. Get some Claybuster 3/4 ounce wads and load approx 16 gr of Red Dot and MAGNUM shot. Shoots pretty tight patterns(for trap). If you can't find the wads you can use Winchester wads of any type by getting either old style 20 ga card or even better filler wads to adjust the height of the shot so it will fit the case It may take a bit of trial with 1 1/8 ounce wads. You can adjust the powder charge either up or down a bit. Up will give more velocity and (usually) a bit more open patterns, Down to 15 gr will give pretty tight patterns. I think her GU has gone to 700X powder(16.2 gr) cause I sold him a 12 pound keg of that for a 100 bucks. But the velocity is about the same. Winter time might require a bit more powder just because of the burning speed due to th light charges... But they are in Maryland and it usually doesn't get that cold there...although Green Dot probably won't work well anywhere during winter it will probably work during the warm months at around 17 gr. I used to load some 20 ga 5/8 ounce loads using it in the past....using 28 ga filler wads and 7/8 and 1 ounce wads. Oh if you use large filler wads with 1 1/8 ounce wads...just a dab of duco cement or glue stick on the base of the filler wad makes for better patterns.

Thanks for the ideas.........

I dropped the Green Dot down to 17.4 grs in the Rem sts hull with a fig-8 wad and the barrel was just down right dirty and a poor burn.

I checked the powder charge and wad height in this hull with Red Dot and it looks like the minimum amount of powder to a good fit for a crimp with the DR-F8 wad is a low 15.5 grs of powder, for the 1 1/8 oz. payload.
I will test it in my O/U, since I think this load will be too light for the Gas shotgun. If it works out I will post but I am thinking that I might have to go to the 1 ounce loads or less for the lighter recoil trap loads.

My experience is a 1 1/8 oz. load has to be way too slow the get less felt recoil than a 1 oz. 1200fps load. For years my normal Sporting clays load was 7/8 oz. at 1285 fps. I only loaded #7.5's and was completely satisfied! ( years ago (2000+/-) Federal loaded paper hulls with 7/8 at 1285fps in #8's, as a Cowboy Action shotgun load, I bought the only case I ever saw, and started loading in Fed Paper and AA Plastic as soon as they ran out, I found they were fine for Sporting Clays and small game too in 7.5's and 6's!) I use Winchester (or Claybuster's equivalent) grey (7/8) wad and Hodgdon's Tightwad powder, AA Haul, and WW209 primer. Not being a trap shooter, I don't know what the Velocity limitations are.

Ivan

"Paper Federals"............... you lucky guy, you.

I also like the 7/8 oz. loads and use the "Gray" ones that work
for me with the different weights and powders that I use, in my loads, that stack at different heights in the tapered hulls used.

Here are some that I have played with.

Recoil problems

Switch to a gas auto.
Add a Rucker Bumpbuster to the stock.
Better than sacrificing load performance.

Get some Claybuster wads that are equivalent to Winchester AA 12 SL wads. Wads are cheap. Get some Clays or Clay Dot. I use these in 12 ga 7/8 loads every weekend for Skeet, 5-Stand and Sporting Clays in Federal papers. If you’re recoil sensitive, you’re not going to get soft shooting with Red Dot/Green Dot and 1 1/8 oz. wads.

My pet Trap load is a 1 ounce load of # 7 1/2 shot pushing an estimated 1300 fps. Powder used is Clays in a 18.1 grain charge weight and I use a TGT-12 wad in a Remington Hull.

BTW, I started shooting clays May 15 2018, so I'm still learning. One thing I've learned is that what matters is how well aimed your shot is, not how many pellets you are sending downrange. As for what I shoot, mainly it's Trap with some Sporting Clays thrown into the mix. In an effort to improve my shooting of crossing shots in Sporting Clays I started shooting 5 stand and Skeet this summer. BTW, found my Trap load will totally vaporize a clay when shooting skeet with a perfectly centered shot. That is rather fun.

Now, the reasoning behind choosing this load. First, I'm a bit slow on the trigger at times and the result of this are longer shots. So, number 7 1/2 shot was chosen to carry more energy out to 50 or 60 yards. The 1 ounce shot charge was chosen because it costs less. The powder choice was initially because that was what was available when I started loading 12 gage and I stayed with it because I like the patterns produced and clean shooting I get with Clays. The charge weight was chosen initially because it's what I was using for my 1 1/8 ounce loads and a couple rounds of testing showed that this charge weight also worked will with the 1 ounce load. Note, with the 1 1/8 ounce load the FIG-8 wad produced the best crimp and with the 1 ounce loads the TGT-12 worked best.

Concerning recoil. I've been told by a class AA Skeet shooter that I need to start shooting the smaller calibers or I'll wreck my shoulder with the 12 gage like he did his. That suggestion about using a semi auto is a good one, I have a CZ 712 that I use occasionally for Trap and it is noticeably softer shooting. You could also think about going to a 20 gage but most 20's are about 1 pound lighter than a 12 gage so the recoil felt with a 20 can be nearly identical to that of a 1 gage. If you want to reduce the recoil with a 20 the best approach is to use Companion Barrel inserts to sleeve your 12 down to a 20. Note, this will produce a muzzle heavy balance but you will have a soft shooting 20.

Another approach would be to work up 7/8 or 3/4 ounce loads in the 12 at about 1200-1250 fps. In order to work up this load you'll want to get as many shotgun loading manuals as you can locate and you'll probably have to acquire a variety of wads to test. I would initially choose the wad to be the one that produces the best crimp. If the cup is just to shallow for the shot charge then you'll want to get a variety of 20 gage paper wad cards you can drop in the shot cup. It will take some time but you should be able to arrive at a setup that works well. Note, I've seen one of ourbetter shooters shoot Trap with a 3/4 ounce 410 and he did pretty well, only missed 2 clays. So, it is possible to go quite light with the shot charge but you will have to refine your aiming to compensate for that thinner cloud of pellets going downrange. I'd also suggest trying an Extra Full choke.

I have loaded numerous 1 1/8 oz loads with 14.5 grains of Red with a Fed 209. Works real well and smokes the birds. You can go to a cooler primer but I always liked the Fed 209. You can also use the 1 1/8 oz wads for 1 oz loads by inserting a .200 inch 20 gauge card wad under the shot charge. It is a bit tedious but works real well and does not give you a big dip in the crimp.

I appreciate all you for sharing your info and loads for softer shooting loads . I have never reloaded shotgun ammo . I have always wanted to , just haven't yet . I have only one 12ga , a SXS with exposed hammers . It's was made by the company that bought out L.C. Smith and made before 1933 . I fully realize that lighter loads are in order and only using lead shot . I have shot it a few times with factory , Nobel Sport . I didn't mind the recoil , it was plain fun to shoot . I grew up on my dads 10ga magnum . An Ithica SXS with exposed hammers . So SXS and exposed hammers just feel about right to me . Again, thx for sharing . I hope someday to get to reload a few 12's . Regards, Paul

Have you tried a box of mini shells to be sure this will solve your issues. I've found just a good results with a new pad (sorbothane) or weighted inserts.

Thanks for the reply's and ideas...........

I will be going to the trap club tomorrow and will leave my O/U home and take my Beretta 391 gas along with some light 1 oz. loads and some NEW for me, 1 1/16 oz. loads with red and Green, to see how they do on trap.

The light 1 oz. will be used on Skeet, to see if they will cycle and eject on the "Doubles" as well as a 1 1/8 load with 18.2 grains of Green Dot as its FINAL test to stay alive in my reloading notes.
Looks like Green is for a 3 Dr, load for best results and burn, for it to be of any good so far in my test and have high numbers of breaks.

The 391 is mainly for duck and upland shooting, so this will be very interesting , to see if the loads break the birds, eject and how dirty the barrel is after shooting a box of ammo.

I do have a shell catcher but it is a pain to load and I have to admit, that for the trap games, the O/U is a better over all weapon, for the loader that wants his hulls back.

I will let the one time Estate and two time Gun Clubs lay on the ground but I do try to save the STS if fired less than four times and no pin holes in the crimp or wall areas.

Later.

The GD load may fail to function the 391 if it is cold. Otherwise to be honest I am not really fast on the trigger like I used to be but still break targets at trap and skeet with 7/8 ounce loads. And I shoot them in a gas gun too...but a lemon hunnert. 1100s are probably the lightest recoiling semi autos out there. I do own a "few"...in every gauge except the 16. I am recoil sensitive and have never shot a 12 ga shell in my K-80 or any other O/U except the Franchi Live pigeon gun. Even at live pigeons the heaviest load I ever shot was the old original Live pigeon load...3 1/4- 1 1/4 ounce loads. Big money pigeon shoots are a young guys game... and very expensive. The original International trap and skeet loads were 3 1/2 Dr. 1 1/4 ounce. When the Olympic committee reduced the loads to 24 grams(about 7/8 ounce) scores went up instead of down like they expected a bit less recoil I imagine. Try some lighter loads. I shoot the 20 ga in the 12 ga skeet event..Have for years.. And I have broken more 100s than I did with the 12 ga. BTW the gun club Remington cases are essentially the same as the STS other than the metal base.

Have to agree with Skeet about the Remington Gun Club hulls, they are the same as the STS except for the colors. The Gun Clubs are the ONLY hull I use for my reloading.

I also expect the Nevada Ed will find his 391 does just fine with light target loads. I have a CZ 712 that is a rather close copy of Beretta's gas operated semi's and it does just fine with some light target 12's.

I like the Rem. Gun Club hulls but.....................

I prefer a low base "Brass" base over a cheaper made "Tin" silver base
that tends to get crunched in my O/U now and then if I don't full size it, like the GC, Estate and cheep Winchester shoot and toss ammo.

Not fun when you go to close the action and it stops short with a noise like stomping on a soda can with your foot!!

The reason I only loaded the Estates just one time was the talk about a loose paper base that might go down the barrel.
One reason I really love a "Uni" hull......

even though some have bad mouthed my "Pretty" Peter's Blue Magic hulls, saying that they will separate in a hot barrel ?

Knock on wood............ not yet !!

Glad to see that there are a lot of shooters out there with lots of cases behind them...... (500 shells)
for you green shooters, that is a double flat, that they sell now days at only 250 in the cardboard.

I did notice that a 25 lb. bag of shot is cheaper here in Reno than it was , back in 2013.....................

"Pull" !!

Ed the base on the Gun Clubs are made of Aluminum and size fine. The best sizer for shotshells is the collet "squeeze" sizer made by Mec. If you hae a shotshell press that doesn't size try one of the ones by Mec. The GCs will last for many loadings. Blue Magics were pretty decent shells in their day but it really isn't a joke that they will shoot off..giving you an occasional zinger...but usually in a semi auto Never saw one shoot off in in an O/U. The Estates will load 3 or 4 times(I load the 20s 3 times). Shooting in an O/U you can "and should" look in the bore with any reloads. I do it religiously. Even back in paper shell days I had only one base wad dislodge from a shell...it was a Winchester BTW. By the time Win got to making the AA case I had loaded at least a 1/4 million shells. Papers of course. I had shell ironers and waxers. primer pocket peeners and case trimmers. Used those old shells to destruction. Usually pin holes in the sides of the paper cases next to the brass base. Shooting a Browning and a Winchester M-50 I had quite a few brass bases pulled off. And one every now and then in a Remington 58 or 1100. It is amazing..Win made the AA case. Remington chased the AA case with a bunch of plastic wonders..Winchester quit making the real AA and Remington finally made a case to compete with the AA. The STS is a good substitute for the old style AA.

BTW how much is shot out your way these days? I have made my own for the most part for quite a few years...except for my serious 410s and 28s. Practice ones are my shot

Reno shot at the Sportsman is 42 and Cabela's 41 for a bag on mag lead.
I have slowed way down on trap shooting these days and don't even know
if the stores or trap clubs sell reclaimed, any more?

My new young neighbor, likes to shoot skeet and some trap, so I
am starting back up again.

Time to let the moths out of my wallet again................

Look up some loads with IMR 7625. Great low pressure and low recoil loads.