Lead shavings in barrel

PapaWheelie · Mar 29, 2021

Yesterday at the range I was showing the range officer the factory finish of the tip of the barrel of my Beretta 92FS when he noticed these shavings in the barrel and took a pic for me. Neither he or I had ever seen anything like this. At home I found they were non-magnetic (whew!) soft and flexible and the longest about 3/4".

I was shooting 147 gr Acme coated flat points over 4.0 gr True Blue OAL 1.140" and a Lee die taper crimp.

What am I doing wrong with my reloads please? Anyone see a barrel like this before?

Nevada Ed · Mar 29, 2021

Whem a soft material hits a sharp metal edge, things will happen.

It is not a major blockage, just a little material, that should not harm the weapon or shooter.

At least it is not a lead build up.

If my weapon, I would keep on trucking.

cowboy4evr · Mar 29, 2021

Possibly could be a " rough " barrel , machine marks . Usually a couple of thousand jacketed bullets smooth out the barrel . That small amount of lead I would not get concerned . Regards Paul

jjfitch · Mar 29, 2021

Syntax

You barrel rifling is stripping lead from the bullet. How is the accuracy? Are you seeing any evidence of "keyholing"?

Velocity, lead hardness and bullet to barrel fit are a delicate balance where I would start looking!

Smiles,

glenwolde · Mar 29, 2021

I'm down with the jacketed bullet suggestion. Or lap it with something. Either manually or firelap it.

I think you have some "sharp" rifling that's striping some of the coating. If you can find some uncoated bullets see what they do. If it's not affecting anything don't worry about it. It will go away over time with wear.

Fishinfool · Mar 29, 2021

Good advice in above posts. Personally, I have always found it harder to find a good cast bullet load in most 9mm's compared to the .38 / .357, .44 mag., .40 or .45 acp. Proper bullet fit in the bore, bullet hardness, bullet base (flat is better), all play a role. A gas checked bullet can help, as can using a slightly larger diameter bullet from the usual .355 / .356, as long as it will chamber reliably. Might want to consider coated bullets in the future. I always expect a little leading in the 9mm. Shaved in thin strips in a semi-auto makes me think a rough bore may be the cause, maybe an undersized bullet skipping on the rifling?

Larry

4barrel · Mar 30, 2021

Does the rifling look deeper than normal? Plated bullets aren't much more. I have some Acme 9mm but they are lighter.

PapaWheelie · Mar 30, 2021

The accuracy is not what I had hoped for though I don't know if it's the gun or me. I've tried different bullet weights and powder charge with no noticeable change. Most of my shooting is with my 686 and the trigger on the 92FS is hard to get used to. I have not seen any signs of keyholing.

I appreciate all of the input and feel better now that all it may need is to be broken in more. I probably have 400-500 rounds through it but all lead. I have had to stick with coated lead due to the indoor range rules but I will load up some jacketed now we can head outdoors.

Now the trick will be to find a couple thousand 9mm jacketed bullets to reload with.

DeplorabusUnum · Mar 30, 2021

Lots of good thoughts expressed already. I'll throw out one more idea, since you are loading coated bullets. I'm not familiar with what coating acme uses, but it looks like a hi-tec type of coating. I've notice when I load powder coated bullets, if the case mouth isn't flared enough, the rim of the cartridge will shave off thin little slivers of coating as the bullet is being pushed into the case. Those can hang around on your bullet unless you wipe them off. They look a little bit like the slivers in your barrel. I've never seen leading look like that. I've found the case mouth needs to be flared about 10/1000ths to be sure the powder coat isn't being stripped off. Might be worth a try checking your amount of case flare. Just a thought.

stansdds · Mar 30, 2021

I have never had really good luck with cast lead bullets in the 9x19mm. No issues with my jacketed or plated bullet loads, but lead was a mess and lacked consistent accuracy. Powder coated (Hi-Tek) should work as well as plated, so long as the case mouth is flared sufficiently so as to not shave the coating from the bullet.

max503 · Mar 30, 2021

I wouldn't think twice about it. If the load works, shoot 'em!

jjfitch · Mar 30, 2021

PapaWheelie said:
The accuracy is not what I had hoped for though I don't know if it's the gun or me. I've tried different bullet weights and powder charge with no noticeable change. Most of my shooting is with my 686 and the trigger on the 92FS is hard to get used to. I have not seen any signs of keyholing.

I appreciate all of the input and feel better now that all it may need is to be broken in more. I probably have 400-500 rounds through it but all lead. I have had to stick with coated lead due to the indoor range rules but I will load up some jacketed now we can head outdoors.

Check Extreme Bullets. They have had their plated bullets in stock or get on their list.

I shoot their .357, 135 grain RNFP bullet in both 9mm and 38Spl. No issues.

What's not to love!

I could send you some to try if you wish.

Smiles,

gwpercle · Mar 30, 2021

You may want to try a larger bullet . With cast / coated lead in 9mm Luger , I have found sizing to .357 works best .
Be sure to flare the case mouth ( Lyman M-Die style) to keep the tapered 9mm case from sizing down the bullet when you seat it into the case . A undersize lead bullet will leave deposits like all git out .
Gary

mikld · Mar 30, 2021

That's mainly plain old barrel leading. I've seen leading that is bad, but not quite as bad ad the pics. The "strings" of lead are heavy deposits that have come loose from the barrel. Too small, too hard, driven too fast, poor lube. I have been able to get my cast bullets to produce very little if any leading, but a couple of my guns took a bit more work (9mm is often a bit more difficult due to higher pressures and often barrel dimensions varying. Modern manufactured barrels are pretty consistent but older European barrels vary a bit more).

For good real life info on anything concerning cast bullets go here; Cast Boolits...

One thing about shooting cast bullets is you need to know your gun. Barrel dimensions, chamber dimensions, individual gun load preferences, etc. A bit more involved than shooting condom bullets. I enjoy the process and I have molds and bullets for every gun I own and a few guns that have not fired a jacketed bullet since they have been in my possession.

dla · Mar 30, 2021

PapaWheelie said:
Yesterday at the range I was showing the range officer the factory finish of the tip of the barrel of my Beretta 92FS when he noticed these shavings in the barrel and took a pic for me. Neither he or I had ever seen anything like this. At home I found they were non-magnetic (whew!) soft and flexible and the longest about 3/4".

I was shooting 147 gr Acme coated flat points over 4.0 gr True Blue OAL 1.140" and a Lee die taper crimp.

What am I doing wrong with my reloads please? Anyone see a barrel like this before?

I'm guessing the bullets are HiTek coated. If so, what you have is lube failure towards the muzzle. I don't think it will affect accuracy - it doesnt for me.
I experienced this when I first started shooting HiTek-coated fodder. My theory is that bullet makers would coat THEN final size the bullets, creating a slightly undersized bullet.
Leading at muzzle with hitek coating?

PapaWheelie · Mar 30, 2021

Again, thanks for the input. The Acme and coated DG bullets I use are Hi-Tek coated. Both Acme and DG are producers nearby me in Wisconsin and want to support the local guys. I did the acetone and hammer test as suggested in the link on DLA's post and besides a little color on the rag there were no signs of coating failure on either brand.
Lately I have been trying to flare the mouth of the case to more easily accept the bullet during reloading although I've under-flared in the past and have shaved a little coating off. The loads Sunday came off the shelf and perhaps were one of those batches???
The Acme 9mm says sized to .356" and consistently mic to .3555". Honestly don't know how much the size comes into play here.

PapaWheelie · Mar 30, 2021

gwpercle said:
You may want to try a larger bullet . With cast / coated lead in 9mm Luger , I have found sizing to .357 works best .

Gary

Forgive me if this is a dumb question but I have .38 caliber 158 gr Hornady XTP hollow points sized to .357" on the shelf. Can I use these, or any other jacketed .38 bullet, that is sized to .357" in a 9mm. How about lead .38's in a 9mm. How much difference does .001" make?

jjfitch · Mar 30, 2021

Size does matter!

PapaWheelie said:
Forgive me if this is a dumb question but I have .38 caliber 158 gr Hornady XTP hollow points sized to .357" on the shelf. Can I use these, or any other jacketed .38 bullet, that is sized to .357" in a 9mm. How about lead .38's in a 9mm. How much difference does .001" make?

Re-Read post #12!

Leading is almost always due to undersized bullets. If I get leading the first thing I do is go up in bullet diameter.

Extra hard lead can contribute to leading as well as lube that is too hard!

I've shot a zillion bullet sized .357 in 9mm lead (8-10 BHN) and plated and Hi-Tek coated! No issues what so ever!

Smiles,

gwpercle · Mar 31, 2021

PapaWheelie said:
Forgive me if this is a dumb question but I have .38 caliber 158 gr Hornady XTP hollow points sized to .357" on the shelf. Can I use these, or any other jacketed .38 bullet, that is sized to .357" in a 9mm. How about lead .38's in a 9mm. How much difference does .001" make?

If the loaded XTP Hollow Point rounds will manually feed , chamber and extract ... then yes . Make a few dummy (no powder , no primer) rounds to test ... First do a "Plunk" test , next manually cycle the action and test feeding (from magazine) , chambering and extraction ... If it passes all these tests, load a few for shooting test .
Slug and measure your barrel to make sure of what you are dealing with .
Inthe case of cast lead ,coated and regular lube ... size is still the main factor . .001 or .002 over barrel dia. , undersisized bullets will lead no matter what you do . Undersized Jacketed bullets can get away with being undersized but NOT lead / coated .
Gary

Johnnu2 · Mar 31, 2021

Just an FYI re: oversized bullets. Several years ago, I was speaking with one of the nationally known pistol smiths. I was asking about having a Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine cal. converted to a .32-20 cal. I knew that his particular smith made the conversion using the original .30 Carbine bbl. I specifically asked him if shooting .32 cal bullets (.312 - .314") would be a problem in the orig. barrel (.308"). He said "No". Then I asked him if I could use lead AND jacketed .32's in that .308" bbl and he said I could use either without any concern. While I trust his information as the expert he really is, I chose another route with my conversion and had it done with an Octagon bbl in the traditional .32 cal. dimensions.
FYI,
J.

Lead shavings in barrel

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