Taper v. Factory crimp die for .45 ACP

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Falconxx

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I have a carbide LEE 3-die set for .45 ACP and was considering getting the fourth die, but cannot decide on which one. Does anyone have any experience about whether the taper or factory crimp die worx best for this application? I have read the blurb in their reloading catalog and still can't figger it out. Any ideas? Thanx.
 
I use the Lee FCD and have for years and thousands of rounds and never had a problem. You will get a mix of opinions I am sure as it happens every time this question is posted. Either way will work just find the way that works best for you.
 
The answer is, it depends. If you use pick up brass at the range, you'll definitely want it. If you only reload brass shot through your pistols and revolvers, you probably won't need it. One other thing to consider is whether you use a progressive press where you want to seat and crimp separately. In that case, you'll also want the fourth FCD.
 
For MANY years, I've used a "fourth" die for cases that headspace on the front edge of the case i.e. 45ACP, 9mm etc etc. The fourth die is always a TAPER CRIMP die that allows me to set the front of the case 'flush' not 'crimped'. This, in turn, allows the case to seat on the ridge INSIDE the barrel, and thus, headspace correctly. If one is going to shoot these 'rimless' pistol cartridges in a revolver and using half-moon or full moon clips, then you can crimp them anyway you want to. The taper crimp die that I use happens to be an RCBS die because that's my favorite brand. Yes, TC does add a fourth step (done AFTER using the seating dies JUST to seat the bullet to depth). After the seating step, I use the TC die to take the flare out of the case and assure a tight 'crimp' to the bullet. I use this for lead and jackedted bullets. It's worked for me for MANY years. p.s. I have no idea what a "factory crimp" die is for a .45ACP..... maybe it DOES do a taper crimp since it is made for a rimless cartridge (?).
IMHO,
J.
 
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The Lee factory crimp die for .45/9mm/etc. ARE taper crimp dies. Lee literature (Metallic Reloading and other brochures) all state this and that you cannot "over crimp" with these dies. In contrast, the FCDs include with dies like .38/357 or .45 Colt are roll crimp and do require some fine adjustment. I've got both types and always use the 4 die setup.
 
Falconxx said:
I have a carbide LEE 3-die set for .45 ACP and was considering getting the fourth die, but cannot decide on which one. Does anyone have any experience about whether the taper or factory crimp die worx best for this application? I have read the blurb in their reloading catalog and still can't figger it out. Any ideas? Thanx.
Click to expand...

Why do you feel you need a 4th die?
 
Falconxx said:
I have a carbide LEE 3-die set for .45 ACP and was considering getting the fourth die, but cannot decide on which one. Does anyone have any experience about whether the taper or factory crimp die worx best for this application? I have read the blurb in their reloading catalog and still can't figger it out. Any ideas? Thanx.
Click to expand...

If you use range pickup / mixed brass with an unknown history you put yourself at a big disadvantage from the start. With handgun brass, case walls are of varying thicknesses, bullets are gripped with varying amounts of tension, and the brass may be worn out, one reason it was left on the ground. However, it will work, just not as well as good, once-fired brass from the same lot or at least with the same headstamp. It's far from "free" because of the costs and headaches already mentioned. If your interest in accuracy is secondary, go with the "free" stuff.

With decent brass, a taper crimp is all you need. A Lee factory crimp die may work if you use it properly, but I've never found a need for one, though I have several. The proper use of a taper crimp die is simple: crimp just enough so that the cartridge will chamber and the bullet will not move under recoil. This amount of crimp is adequate to insure clean burning of powder as well, provided you are using the right powder for the load and the load itself is balanced. Avoid YouTube for a handloading education and read paper load manuals. Good luck-
 
Of course it’s not necessary to seat and crimp separately, but I choose to when loading powder coated bullets. This keeps from scraping any of the powder coat off while seating the bullet. I have had good luck with the Redding profile crimp. Also, my Hornady AP press can accommodate the additional die when splitting up the seat crimp operations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die in the 4th station of my Dillon 550b when reloading 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. I am very pleased with the results as its use has eliminated malfunctions in my M&Ps and 1911s.
 
I don't have any of the "New" fancy dies ......
just a real old RCBS that was bought back in the 60's for my reloads.

The #3 die for my pistol loads is set at a "No crimp" length and has worked for me,
with the I/D spec's that came from the factory.
 
Just what is the Lee Factory crimp? is it not a taper crimp die? I would not use a roll crimp on a 45ACP.3
 
pistolpete10 said:
Just what is the Lee Factory crimp? is it not a taper crimp die? I would not use a roll crimp on a 45ACP.3
Click to expand...
The Lee FCD for handgun cartridges is a "post crimp sizing die". Meaning if you make a mistake somewhere in your reloading, the FCD will hide the mistake by ironing out any bulges. The crimp shape/type determined by the cartridge the die is designed for; semi-auto use taper crimp, revolver cartridges use roll crimp...

I have been reloading for a very long time and have never needed to resize any handloads after crimp. I've been heavily reloading 9mm for 16 years and 45 ACP since '90, also quite a bit. Once I determined an OAL and case dimensions I normally get 100% feeding in my 9 semi-auto pistols. I use a plain taper crimp die to "deflare" all my semi-auto handloads. During the load work up I plunk test to insure my handloads will feed, and I cannot remember when I had a failure to feed...


Not a Lee Hater, just see no reason for the FCD (I tried one and it now resides in a landfill somewhere in So. Oregon).
 
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pistolpete10 said:
Just what is the Lee Factory crimp? is it not a taper crimp die? I would not use a roll crimp on a 45ACP.3
Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting the use of a roll crimp, but in the '60s (and maybe earlier) many roll crimped .45 ACP. There's a comprehensive accuracy article in the AMERICAN RIFLEMAN cast bullet supplement from years ago by a well-known 1911 gunsmith and Bullseye competitor, Alton Dinan. He recommended roll-crimping.

I used to have a Star Universal progressive set up for .45 ACP and it came with a die set that offered only a roll crimp in the seating die. I've tried both a roll crimp and a taper crimp in the .45 ACP and my results were largely inconclusive as for feeding, function, and accuracy. I use a taper crimp primarily because I think that's the way it should be done and not because results are necessarily better.
 
"The Lee FCD for handgun cartridges is a "post crimp sizing die". Meaning if you make a mistake somewhere in your reloading, the FCD will hide the mistake by ironing out any bulges."

In other words, a LFC can realign the bullet and brass slightly to make them more concentric, thus "fixing" a possible misalignment. In addition, a LFC can often size further down the case (semi's) than alot of standard carbide dies, and seems to handle a greater variation in case lengths.

The main disadvantage to using them is with larger dia lead bullets. If you are using larger dia lead bullets to fit larger cylinder throats or bore, a LFC can reduce their dia.

A LFC can be used hard enough to create it's own crimp groove, which is usually counterproductive.

Am using them for all semi-auto rounds, but mainly to ensure the case bell is ironed out and light crimp applied while sizing further down the case. For revolver cases, prefer Redding's profile crimp.

Just a preference.
 
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I've loaded many, many range-pickup cases in various calibers and never used anything other than standard RCBS or Hornady dies, be it 2- or 3-die sets. No small-base dies, no FCD--just plan old dies. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but they all work.
 
I was having problems with cast bullets jumping the crimp in a 625 with tight chambers and throats. Solved the problem with a roll crimp from a Lee FCD for which Lee machined the crimp ring so that one side of world give a roll crimp and the other side gave a taper crimp. Cost was dominated by shipping.
On the other hand my 1911 functions well with just about any type of crimp.
 
Where the LFCD really shines for me is crimping cast bullets in a separate step. It makes life easier. No concerns about shaving lead which can lead to chambering issues. I avoid the "wasp waste" (which seems to bother some people) by loading .452" bullets in R-P brass.

Old timers will cite their brazillions of round loaded with no problems....and that's nice. Three on the tree also works just fine.

I also sort my pistol brass by headstamp and give 'em a spritz of lube before putting them through my carbide dies.

Flame suit on! :p
 
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