H110 and muzzle flash

Abflyboy · Apr 10, 2009

I've been reading a lot about H110/W296 and muzzle flash. The wealth of information on this forum is amazing! I've been using H110 with a 240gr XTP for a lot of years in my hand loads. I can't honestly say that I really paid attention to the muzzle flash until today. I was shooting at an indoor range that was not well lit on the firing line. The flash was absolutely blinding! I've read a lot about AA2400 as a versatile powder. I would like to hear from all of you about what you like about different powders. I would like to see similar performance to my current load sans muzzle flash.

Thank you
Abflyboy

Abflyboy · Apr 10, 2009

I've been reading a lot about H110/W296 and muzzle flash. The wealth of information on this forum is amazing! I've been using H110 with a 240gr XTP for a lot of years in my hand loads. I can't honestly say that I really paid attention to the muzzle flash until today. I was shooting at an indoor range that was not well lit on the firing line. The flash was absolutely blinding! I've read a lot about AA2400 as a versatile powder. I would like to hear from all of you about what you like about different powders. I would like to see similar performance to my current load sans muzzle flash.

Thank you
Abflyboy

OKFC05 · Apr 10, 2009

Well, the good news is there are several powders that are "almost" the same in performance...and the bad news is the "Almost."

296 is the optimum max velocity, long barrel magnum powder.

lafayne · Apr 10, 2009

Does anyone shoot at night? I have night sights and a Streamlight on a couple of 9mm's and I am going to stay at the farm one day soon and shoot until it gets dark then shoot some more to see how well I can do and test ammo for muzzle flash.

Any experience here?

Skip Sackett · Apr 10, 2009

AA2400

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Alliant Powders have a powder that is called 2400. It may be less "flashy" than H110 in some loads.

I have found that if you want a powder that is less "flashy" you have to get one that is especially formulated for such. Hence a military powder. I use a MILSURP powder called WC820 for that reason.

I have found Accurate Arms #9 is good for a lot of loads but haven't done the "flash" test yet.

Also, Lil' Gun has been receiving some of my attention lately. Haven't taken the opportunity to do any low light testing yet.

I don't use H110/W296 for the reason you stated, too much flash.

FWIW

musicmanbass · Apr 10, 2009

Night shooting is fun! Anything with H110 or Blue Dot is twice as cool at night due to the fireballs. Mosin 44 carbines are AWESOME!

I've also noticed that most of the Remington green box UMC stuff is pretty flashy compared to the Winchester white box stuff.

OKFC05 · Apr 10, 2009

Any experience here?

Oh sure. We do nightshoots and low-light shoot houose stages. Greatest problem is not our own gun flashes, but the lights shining in our eyes and the strobe lighting, making sight pictures wishful thinking. Lots of point and hope.

Moderate loads of relatively fast powder and long barrels help reduce flashes.

An Open gun with Major 9 and ports looks like a little dragster taking off with the twin towers of flame.

Just messing around with loads after the match was over:
1. Max load of 296 .357 in 3" model 65 gives a 2 foot diameter baloon of fire.
2. Even a 9mm minor load gives a foot dia ball.
3. People who thought their gun was low flash still looked pretty impressive from the side.

Abflyboy · Apr 10, 2009

Where do I look for MILSURP WC820?

I also like night shooting, especially with my 20" barrel 12 ga! 3" magnums with #4 buckshot makes a very nice flash

Snapping Twig · Apr 11, 2009

To reduce flash, switch to hard cast bullets.

This will not eliminate flash, but it will reduce it.

Side benefit, for identical load data - bullet weight and powder charge - lead will move faster.

canoe on the yukon · Apr 11, 2009

Originally posted by OKFC05:
Well, the good news is there are several powders that are "almost" the same in performance...and the bad news is the "Almost."

296 is the optimum max velocity, long barrel magnum powder.

Very well said.Every time someone claims to prefer a different powder,it's always by accepting a lower velocity level.This is especially true with short barrels.There is a myth that the short barrels produce MORE velocity with the faster powders.This has been disproven time and again.Even with the shorter barrels,the slower powders produce more velocity although one pays for this with an increase in flash.

Naturally,I'm referring to top end loads where full performance is desired.

Snapping Twig,

I'm not disputing what you say about a reduction of flash with cast bullets but I've never noticed it.Perhaps because I wasn't looking for it.If the componenets would otherwise be the same,I don't understand why the flash would be less.Any comments?

Paul5388 · Apr 11, 2009

296 is the optimum max velocity, long barrel magnum powder.

That statement really needs to be qualified by adding "in larger bores with larger capacities". W296/H110 is not the optimum powder in .357 Mag and other smaller magnum calibers.

A possible solution to the "flash" problem is switching to a single based powder, like 4227 or SR 4756.

thomashoward · Apr 11, 2009

I never worried about muzzle flash. Some people have said that there is about a foot of flame coming out of my .44 ..who cares.

canoe on the yukon · Apr 11, 2009

Originally posted by thomashoward:
I never worried about muzzle flash. Some people have said that there is about a foot of flame coming out of my .44 ..who cares.

Thomas,

You and I think alike.

Paul,

I think you're right.98% of my pistol loading these days is for the 44 magnum although the 357 mag is something I used quite a bit in the past.

From looking at recent data,I'm impressed particularly with Vhita N110 for 357 mag loads.

Skip Sackett · Apr 11, 2009

..who cares

You and I think alike

Well, I don't think like either one of you!

And there may come a time in the not so far off future when you change your mind. Hopefully there will be time after your last muzzle-flash and the next one!

From a tactical standpoint, muzzle-flash is a BAAAAAADDDDD thing. If you don't load your own carry ammo or if you will NEVER have to use your hunting firearm as a defensive weapon with someone shooting back at you, don't worry about muzzle-flash.

Tactical 101 says: "After shooting, your enemy may be able to see your muzzle-flash, make sure you move so your position cannot be pinpointed."

I hope we all never have to use our firearms as a defensive tool BUT the possibility is real, think about it.

Abflyboy · Apr 11, 2009

Well said, Smith Crazy!

There's more to it than that, of course. While I do have to agree that a nice, big fireball from my muzzle is a neat thing, there are a number of situations where momentary flash blindness could be an issue.

Not to mention pinpointing your own location in a tactical situation.

Who knows what the future will bring . . . ?

Abflyboy

canoe on the yukon · Apr 12, 2009

The complaints about flash normally come from the same individuals who complain about recoil as well as blast.I am not particularly sensitive to either of the three.It is reflecting on this that makes me somewhat cavalier about the flash issue.

If this thread is going to be about combat tactics,I am not a virgin in that area and I could offer some observations of my own.

Skip Sackett · Apr 12, 2009

In a tactical application the procedures and armament used will, hopefully be completely different, as in shoot one and change location.
If you are useing your deer gun in a tactical situation you are street fighting, guerilla style and everything goes, I hope we don't have to fight the Revolution all over again

I hope we NEVER have to use our hunting firearm in a tactical situation. I'm not planning on using it in a Revolution either BUT I have been in the field when numerous bad guys have made themselves pests and needed some persuasion to leave the area.

Whiile I haven't had to use my hunting firearms in a tactical situation YET that doesn't mean I NEVER will and that is the only point trying to be made.

This is not a thread drift as it was asked about H110 and muzzle flash. Other's opinion may vary but here is the truth, you have no idea WHEN you may need a firearm to defend yourself. You have no idea WHERE you are going to have to use your firearm to defend yourself. If that weren't the truth, and you could predict when you would need your firearm defensively, you would only carry one when you were going to need it, not every time you left your abode.(Of course the logic would go to the point that if you knew when and where you would need your firearm defensively, you would be able so simply avoid the time and place, but then you would be omnicient and neither you nor I am.)

That is the only point being spoken to here, muzzle flash, which H110 is notorious for, is not a welcome component of a tactical shoot. The rest is supposition.

John R · Apr 12, 2009

Originally posted by smith crazy:
I have found Accurate Arms #9 is good for a lot of loads but haven't done the "flash" test yet.

AA-9 makes great Magnum handgun loads, and works as good as 296 or H-110, with a whole lot less muzzle flash.
I started using AA-9 for this very reason.
And it's cheaper too!

AA-9 flash is a deep orange, rather than a white flash.

ccoker · Apr 16, 2009

I was talking with Marshall Stanton the other day about some loads for a new 44 I am getting

he recommended 12g of Accurate #5 under a 265g WFN
said it gets right at 1100FSP and will punch through a 400lb hog end to end...

anyways, he commented on how little muzzle flash you get, since most of the best hunting is in low light, not having excessive muzzle flash which hammpers night vision is a good thing...

and of cours the tactical implications as already mentioned

H110 and muzzle flash

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