It's raining and flash flooding here in Mississippi, so I decided to take some time and load up a box of .44 Special for the Ruger Flatop Blackhawk. Here's the load:

Case: Starline
Primer: Federal #155
Powder: Alliant Blue Dot
Charge: 8.0 grains
Bullet: Missouri Keith, .430 Diameter, 240 Grain LSWC

Anybody else use Blue Dot for .44 Special? I'm using Hornady data for a 240 grain LSWC. Usually I load .44 Special with Unique, but in the past year I've been using Blue Dot with magnum primers (only because standard large pistol primers are hard to find here). I've shot this load before and it's a bit snappy in the Ruger, but nowhere near max.

Attached Images

	.44 Special Load.jpg (136.8 KB, 190 views)
	Keith .44.jpg (87.5 KB, 135 views)

I never used Blu Dot in 44 Special. I have loaded thousands of 200 gr RNFP and 240 SWC over WW231. I've had very good results in a Colt SSA, a Tauras 3" and a Uberti 1873 rifle.

Ivan

I have very limited supply of blue dot maybe 1/4 LB. I remember trying some loads with 44 mag but never did try the Special loads.

How did the Spl loads do for consistency and accuracy out of the flattop? I remember reading about some people avoiding blue dot due to narrow window of loadings but I might have it confused with another powder.

I just looked at my notes. I only load my own cast bullets in handgun chamberings. I can't believe I've never tried Blue Dot in any .44 Special loads, alll of which have been 200 - 255 grs.

Looks like I've used around eight or so other powders with six to eight bullets. I haven't bought any Blue Dot in some years, but don't remember why.

I get some good groups with this load. It's very similar to my other pet load which is 6.0 grains of Unique. I don't see a lot of difference.

I have never used Blue Dot either.
Bullseye, Universal, Unique, even PB (for gallery loads).
6.5 gr Universal is my usual 44 special load with 220 or 240 gr bullets.
However, what with the shortages, especially Alliant, if I see any Blue Dot or it's equivalents I'll prolly pick up a couple pounds.
Planning a trip up to Recobs first week of August just to poke around and have dinner at the Sauk-Prairie Grill.
My budget is not what it once was but I am low on Universal and Unique so I'll get whatever is useful.
Thanks for the idea!
Looking for 444 Marlin powders too.
Normally that's H4198 or RL-7, but I'd take N120, H322 or similar.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

I've used BD for both mid-range .44 Magnum and also .45 Colt. I was happy with both.

I've mostly used Unique powder and my home cast Lyman's #429421 (Keith 245 gr. SWC) in loading for my .44 Specials.
With the current shortages, I've had some good luck with Red Dot, Universal, & Trail Boss and that same cast SWC. I've also been very pleased with BE-86 powder and that 245 gr. SWC bullet. BE-86 is very close to Unique's burn rate.

WYT-P
Skyhunter

I have had some terrible results with Blue Dot. I do not use it at all.

IMO Blue Dot is a great shotgun powder and that's where it should stay.

Back in the day when we have very few choices things were different. These days with the multitude of powders on the market, there are many better choices.

BUT, if it works for you don't worry what others think. I use HS-6 for the 45 Colt. Many think I'm nuts but I get great results so I keep using it...

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Hi there.

If it works in your gun, it works.
However, Quickload is giving me not even 9000 psi of max pressure when i put a 240 grain bullet at a seating depth of 0.43 inch and 8 grains of Blue Dot.
Be prepared for squib loads. Wooden dowel, or brass stick, no steel.
ALWAYS be _sure_ that the previous bullet _really_ left he gun.
Else, you will shoot he next one behind the sticking one.
Neither your gun nor your body might like the results a lot.
So, no fast shooting series.

Blue Dot was once used for .41 Magnum, but even his was debated and eventually revoked. It is a nice powder, but with reduced loads it might act funny.

However, i looked up Blue Dot in the "Propellant Profiles" book, and there is a .44 Special / 240 grain load with 9 grains of Blue Dot. Article was from R.H. VanDnburg, Jr.
I would up it by 1 grain and make it 9 grain for good measure.
This should result in like 11 000 psi according to the Quickload program.

Still, i would recommend faster, even very fast powders for .44 Special.
I currently used mostly MAXAM Powders in .44 Magnum (CSB2 and CSB6), both are shotgun powders and they work great and according with the simulations, even in loads as low as 6.75 grain.
That a powder was intended for shotgun mostly means that these are usually extruded little flakes, resulting in a fluffy, bulky powder which meters in powder fillers like cow poop. I do a lot of weighing to keep this at bay. Oherwise they work quite good as hey have to work at rather low pressures. This hopefully will save the day for Blue Dot in .44 Special.

Good luck!

Don't use bluedot myself but I do like power pistol.

One of my favorite loads is 8.0gr of pp and a home cast 245gr keith swc. That combo does 830fps out of a 2 1/2" bbl'd ca bulldog.

Enjoy your 44spl, it's one of those forgotten calibers that's extremely accurate and hard hitting even with mild/standard loads.

I’ve only used three powders with 44 Special. Herco, HP-38, and Win 244. My 240 grain SWC load is 7.5 grains of Herco. It’s a little softer than Skeeter’s load, but not much. It works great out of my 624. I’ve been using Win 244 in a lot of different calibers now as I got an 8lb jug during the “powder drought” of ‘20. It’s worked very well for me with mild to mid loads.

I've cut way back on powders. For the half-dozen popular handgun chamberings I load for (including .44 Special), Bullseye, 231 / HP-38, and #2400 cover everything. While I've tried some of the newer powders, they offer little or nothing over the older ones. I only load cast bullets of my own making for all handgun cartridges.

Thanks for the information. This is really the first time I have used this powder for .44 Special. My go-to powder in the past has been Unique. The Hornady data for a 240 grain LSWC must be very conservative as it shows 9.1 grains Blue Dot as the max load. Since I was using large magnum pistol primers, I was trying to start out below the max and get a target load moving at about 750FPS. I also was trying to come close to the same velocity that 6.0 grains of Unique would yield. These bullets I am using are Missouri hard cast Hi-Tek coated bullets, so I am sure I won't be getting any barrel leading if I work up to Hornady's max load for Blue Dot. Think I'll load about 25 cases with 8.5 grains Blue Dot and see what I get. If there are no flat primers or other signs of pressure, I'll load 9.0 grains Blue Dot in another 25 cases. Time to dig my chronograph out and see what these loads are really doing out of the Ruger's 4 and 5/8 inch barrel.

There will probably not be any signs of primer flattening (especially while using magnum primers) until you get into maximum (or over) magnum pressures, like 40,000 psi. If you get flattened primers in a .44 Special, you are way overloaded.

The original powder trinity is Bullseye, Unique and 2400 and they still work very well after 100 + - years.

My powder trinity is a little different, it is:
W231/HP-38
W540/HS-6
W296/H110

If necessary in the future I will substitute the newer W244 for W231 and W572 for HS-6.

Like the Hercules/Alliant trio the Winchester trio will load any handgun cartridge and do it well.
I do have a bunch of other powders I play with but those 3 are my goto powders.

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

That is a good list especially these days when Winchester is available and Alliant is not.
I was just at Recobs last weekend and they said they have no idea when Alliant will ship again.
They DO however have Federal LRP and LRPM for less than $.1/apiece.
I grabbed some. They are $8.5/100 and bricks for $77.

FWIW my main 44 special load is 6.5 Universal under a 240 SWC or plated.
When/if I run out of Universal (unobtainium) I'll go with CSB1 which I have a lot of from the aforementioned previous shortage.
It's slightly faster than Universal and burns nice and clean.
Just about anything faster than 2400 can be made to work in the 44 special if you keep your wits about you,
but as mentioned the faster powders are much cleaner and more efficient.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

My go to load in .44 Special for years has been 7.5gr. of Unique with a 200gr. RNFP bullet, I also load this combination in .44 Magnum. Seldom shoot any other loads any more, recoil is moderate and accuracy excellent.

It must be a regional thing because around here everything Alliant has always been available. It's in stock all over for example Midway USA.

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S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

Model19man said:
It must be a regional thing because around here everything Alliant has always been available. It's in stock all over for example Midway USA.

I haven't seen any Unique (or any other Alliant powders for that matter) here in Western Tennessee in almost 3 years. I'm glad I stocked up!

WYT-P
Skyhunter

It was in stock at Midway last week when I ordered a pound each of Green Dot and Herco. I have close to 5 pounds of Unique so I didn't order any more. Now the Midway site says no backorders and Unique not available????

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S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

I've fooled around with lots of 44 sp loads in my cast bullets, but never Blue Dot. Not sure which powders you have, but the ones I've gotten great accuracy from a 6" 629 are:

205 gr RNFP over 5.9 gr Trailboss 1.415 900 ft/s
205 gr RNFP over 6.0 gr CFE Pistol 1.537 1035 ft/s
250 gr RN2R over 12.5 gr 2400 1.530 1000 f/s
250 gr RNFP over 5.5 gr 231 1.522 800 ft/s
255 gr Keith over 13.2 gr 4227 1.560 770 ft/s

I've found Trail Boss to be a nice accurate soft shooting load in every caliber I've tried.

__________________
What could possibly go wrong?

Hey guys, I lucked out and found this thread just when I needed it. I was going through the safe and pulled out a 624 that Hadn't seen the light of day in quite a while.Went out to the shop to see what I had for parts and found a ton of 44 spl cases from Starline and a bunch of 240g SWC from SNS that I'd been using for the 29. I've only done one run of Specials and that was a year or so ago. Mostly been loading rifle rounds as the scopes are easier to see. Anyway, I had been loading the mags with 12.4 g of Autocomp so I got a load out of the Hornady book for a special load using Win 231. I had a pound waiting for a use. The minimum load was 5g? I started at 5.4 and got all the dies set on the Dillon. I ran 6 rounds through and looked in the cases and there's hardly anything in there. Weighed all the loads and they're 5.4 exactly. Maybe I'm just used to seeing rifle rounds full of powder, but I started to wonder if these 44 special loads are going to be position sensitive? Glad I found this thread.

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Time wounds all heels

Great rainy day project. I like Unique under most 44 spl loads, along with Bullseye and 231 for 180 to 255 grain bullets. I have some Trail Boss, so will try it.

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213th FBINA

In 44 Special, I like the real Keith 429421 so it clocks out of a 4-inch Model 24 or 29 at about 950 foot seconds. For the most part, that load will pretty much do everything that needs doing.

FWIW the online Hodgdon recipe for HP38 and a 240 SWC in the 44 special is:
4.2 gr. 717 fps 8.4kcup - 5.2 gr. 858 fps 13.2 kcup COAL 1.45"

My Hornady 8th book uses the 240 swaged and knurled Hornady "SWC" which is nothing like the Keith bullet:
W231: 4.9 gr. 650 fps - 6.2 gr. 800 fps COAL = 1.49"
3" test barrel (!)

Almost all 44 special loads with the faster powders are going to leave a lot of air in the case.
Some powders are more position sensitive than others, you'll just have to experiment.
(I have never used HP38/W231).
The Universal and CSB-1 I use do not seem to be particularly position sensitive.

Because of the low powder density of 44 special (and magnum) target loads,
I played around with fillers for several years and came to the conclusion
that they are more trouble than they are worth in revolver loads.
I have tried Grex (shotgun buffer) which is my favorite, Pufflon (way messy), tumbling media (both kinds),
toilet paper, various homemade wads (styrofoam and other material), and foam earplugs.
The nitroexpress crowd tends to use foam caulk backing rod to fill up those huge cases.
That will be my next (and most likely final) filler to try in the 444 for reduced loads.
The only current load I continue to use filler in is a 44 magnum equivalent in the 444 where 24 gr. of 2400 only fills up half the case.

Attached Images

	Packin_A_Wad800.jpg (264.3 KB, 18 views)
	444-Sierra-240JHC-44magEquivalent-1024.jpg (240.2 KB, 17 views)

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

Thanks Nemo, I appreciate the help. At 7000g a pound, and 6g a round, it looks like 1100 rounds a pound. If that math is right, this could be a fun and cost effective range round.

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Time wounds all heels

240 hard cast SWC at 850-900 FPS will take care of anything with good hits. What am I worried about with this load? Not a darn thing!!

I have to disagree with you there. A wooden dowel is about the worst thing you can use to remove a stuck bullet. When it shatters, it will jam in there tight enough you will need to almost drill it out. I much prefer a bore diameter steel rod. A couple of taps and the bullet is removed. No damage to the bore.

Kevin

__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.

I’m dying to try Trail Boss in my .45 Colt Uberti 1858 conversion but I’ve never seen it available anywhere.

So frustrating…

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Richard

Trail Boss is not available anywhere and has not been for years. I asked at my local reloading store they said they have had it on order for years. The manufacturer says they are not making any but might in the future.

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S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

I loaded Blue Dot back in the 70-80's for my 38 and 357 Magnum for
factory loads and +P or full 357 loads, that had a high fps and good accuracy, in my revolvers.

I did not have a 44 back then and am now out of BD powder.

It might be a little "Fast" for 100 pecent loads in a 44 but I would still
like to see what that powder can do, just for giggles, if I had the makings.

I loaded Blue Dot in the past and found it a bit squirrely at times...mostly winter but that's when I shot most handgun. Blue Dot is hard to get good powder throws with too. I have quite a few 44 sp loaded and most are loaded with 200 gr RNFP w/ 7.5 gr Unique. Good load for fun shooting also 200 gr Spire point home cast at .4295-.430. I use them in my Flat top Ruger and my 4 inch 29-2. For some reason I have found a plethora of 44 sp cases lately. Even a couple hundred 44 Russian...44 mag not so much. I won 150 once fired and 50 new primed mags yesterday in a local auction for 25 dollars. the mag cases get loaded with 240 KT semi wadcutters and usually Unique, Herco or 2400

I have an aluminum rod on the theory that it's softer than the steel bore.
Luckily I have only had one stuck bullet in my shooting "career".
And that happened in my 7.5" Redhawk due to W296 coagulating in
a slightly compressed load stored for many years.
It was a fizzle sticking the bullet in the forcing cone.
Luckily I noticed it before pulling the trigger again.
I had to pry the powder out of the rest of those loads with a crochet hook.
One reason I gave up on 296 and most ball powders in general.
There are several good alternatives like 2400 and IMR4227.

Notice the swollen base of the bullet due to inertia when it stopped suddenly and the gas blasted base rim.
This, to me, is also evidence that jacketed bullets can and do obturate given enough of a kick in the pants.

Attached Images

StuckBulletSierra220FPJ.jpg (149.5 KB, 14 views)

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

I Used to load Blue Dot in .44 mag for upper midrange loads. It worked good. It had a reputation for pressures that spiked quickly and maybe some temperature sensitivity. I think there has been some reformulation of the powder to correct this. I haven't used it in many years now, having substituted AA-9.

Recently I decided to get some use from my 396NG (2.5" bbl) that's been hiding in the safe for too long.

Mainly used Power Pistol, LongShot & Blue Dot with HDY 200gr XTP. Also some Rim Rock 185gr LSWC-HP bullets I had a few dozen of & added gas checks (190grs) & sized to .4304"

P-P & L-S usually run real close in smaller capacity cartridges but when I noticed L-S wasn't performing (chrono results) as well as I expected it dawned on me I needed to check for position sensitivity in this cartridge & do some additional follow-up tests with my LabRadar.

The short story on testing from an initial muzzle down position before aiming & then muzzle up is that P-P was virtually unaffected, L-S was next worst & B-D was the most position sensitive with these load fills in the 44 Special.

All powders charges were dispensed from a Charge Master 1500 & then doubled checked on a Lyman Ohaus M5 beam scale before seating the bullet.

Bullet: HDY 200gr XTP
Primer: FED 150
-------------------------
P-P @ 9.7grs
Muzzle down= 1023fps
Muzzle up= 1029fps

L-S @ 9.7grs
Muzzle down= 984fps
Muzzle up= 1016fps

B-D @ 11.1grs
Muzzle down= 795fps
Muzzle up= 872fps

.

Additionally I tested the L-S load using two different primers, FED-150 & CCI-300, to see if there was any difference. (Regrettably I didn't think about also trying some WLPs until later.)

L-S @ 9.7grs
Muzzle up= 1011fps (FED-150)
Muzzle up= 1023fps (CCI-300)

.

One other test comparing B-D with the HDY 200gr XTP & the 190gr LSWC-HP-GC bullet.

Bullet: HDY 200gr XTP
Primer: FED-150
-------------------------
B-D @ 10.3grs= 840fps
B-D @ 10.7grs= 864fps
B-D @ 11.1grs= 872fps
B-D @ 11.5grs= 921fps

&

Bullet: R-R 190gr LSWC-HP-GC
Primer: FED-150
-------------------------
B-D @ 10.3grs= 840fps
B-D @ 10.7grs= 862fps

Oddly the lead gas check was exactly the same as the jacketed bullet?

Again these velocities are from a 2-1/2" bbl so keep that in mind.

Also, some or all of these loads are +P so use them accordingly in a modern revolver in good repair.

.



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Waiting for the break of day

And yet it was so well received. I’ve never read a negative thing about it as long as it was used as intended.

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Richard

Slightly off-topic, but I got back into reloading in the midst of COVID because no ammo was available.

Components were in short supply as well so I settled on a pound of Blue Dot at a show for much more money than I’m willing to admit, but it turns out to be awesome for my 9mm EDCs.

7.5 gr under a 124 gr. V-Crown; data says 1180 fps, all I know is it shoots clean and accurate in both my Shield and my P365.

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Richard

Awesome testing!
That's the kind of data we only get in this forum and not from the manufacturers.
I am saving that data in my 44 special file.
Only handgun I really shoot any more.

Those aluminum 44 specials kick like a magnum don't they?
I have a 3" 396 and the very rapid recoil keeps me on my toes.
The 396 weighs half of what the 696's do.
Luckily I have a lot of experience shooting magnums and don't mind the experience.
Having said that, I have no desire to shoot a 329 with full house loads.
My wrists hurt just thinking about it.

Attached Images

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

I have not found W231 to be position sensitive.
I use it in many handgun cartridges including the .38 Special and .45 Colt.

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

In a forum for express rifles it was mentioned that 85 gr. Blue Dot was used as a very reduced plinking load in the 4 bore.
The full power load is 14 drams of black powder.
Consider the amount of energy they are dealing with there.
It's impressive.
That is the most extreme use of Blue Dot I have heard of.
Then again the 4 bore is the most extreme sporting weapon still being shot.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

These people claim to have it. I put it in my cart and there wasn’t anything about out of stock.

IMR Trail Boss Smokeless Powder 2 Pounds - Midwest Reloads

Here as well. I didn’t do any due diligence on the sellers, just did a Google search for “Trail Boss for sale”.

Trailboss powder | Trail Boss powder in stock

Looks like this one is a scam website
Scam Website Midwestreloads.com -HOME - MidWest Reloads - StopGunScams.com
I'd be very careful when someone has a product nobody else has in stock. Especially if you've never heard of them before.

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What could possibly go wrong?

What could possibly go wrong indeed!
Check
Dealer Locator – Hodgdon
Alliant Powder - Dealer Locator
and the known reputable online dealers.
If you don't see the advertised outlet in question, stay away.

Luckily my local target shop, Recobs, has been an official distributor/retailer for most major brands for decades.
They seem to know what's going on when we converse.
It's also nice to have an actual store to go to.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

Obvious scam - the only payment types they accept are Zelle, Cashapp and Paypal Friends & Family. Don't fall for it.

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S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

Again an obvious scam that only accepts Zelle etc.

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S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

If it sounds to good to be true is usually is.

Here is something anyone who buys online should read:

How to NOT get Scammed

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

8gr is precisely the load I use too, only in a 3" 696, great load but according to my chrono a little too hot maybe for a 696. My chrono says 895fps with the same bullet and a sd of 19 and es of 7 and quite accurate if I do my part. With a 7.4gr charge I saw 845fps.
Another great 44spl powder is Ramshot TrueBlue. I liked it enough that I bought 8lbs of it. Not just for the Spl though, TB is probably my favorite all around powder. You simply cannot do better in a 9mm.