Looking to build some snake loads for my 357 Magnum. I'll be using 357 Magnum and 357 Maximum brass, trimmed to COAL length for the 357 Mag. I'll use a gas check over the powder, and another crimped over the shot. I think an unsized 357 check is too large to fit inside the 357 case, so what size can I buy that will provide a good snug fit? .30, .32 or some other caliber?
Thanx!

I've been fighting for about 15 years to make a Rat Shot Shell with 357 max brass.

First; if you want to go 357 Mag COAL for brass length: you will need to size the front approx. 1/3" with a taper, I don't Know what die to use but 32-20 won't work! (maybe try 32-40 Win)

Second; if you can find a Bridge Punch a little larger than 11/32", you can make cards from waxed milk carton (Juice boxes work too) for both over the powder and over the shot. I could never get Gas Checks or cards to crip in place permanently, I tried Elmer's glue, wax, and others, NO GO! I learned from an all brass shot shell shooter to seal them in place with Gutter Seam Sealer from the roofing section at Lowe's. Use a popsicle stick like a trowel and smooth with end of case. Allow 2 to 3 week to dry! For my 45Colt cases I use 45-70 cork cards for Black Powder loading. (.032 thick)

Third; shot size should be #8 or larger (holds a better pattern with 7.5 shot) Powder charge should be figured for a lead bullet at the weight of your shot and try for 700 to 750 fps (again, hold a better pattern)

I have never had a successful 357 shot shell from this method because I can't find a way to buy or make cards! I load 12 and 20 gauge shot shells and 45 Colt shells made from 460 S&W brass (trim to 1.51") I get 1/2 ounce of 7.5 shot in my Long Colt shot shells.

From my 5.5" 45 Colt Vaqueros I get a nice and dense 12" pattern at 5 yards! Rips snakes and rats to shreds!

Hope my experience help you.

Ivan

I’ve used Speer shot capsules, gas checks, punched out wads of cork, plastic , alumilum. Nothing is very practical. Shot big enough to penetrate is going to be sparse pattern. I old gun rag there was recipe for Junk Yard Dog loads. Shot capsules are used with straightened pieces of solder instead of shot. Bottom line shot loads only good for extreme short range.
Rats & snakes tough critters, birds no so much. I gave up on them years ago, a light loaded WC works better for me. It’s nice to have a few shot loads for use where you can’t use a bullet but basically they are play toys.

While I have made some way in the past I find it unnecessary these days.

I now use the Speer Shot Capsules instead. I prefer #12 shot instead of #9 shot. I couldn't find any last time I needed more so I bought a cheap box if 12ga shotshells with #12 shot, opening them up and saved the shot lol.
Buy Shot Capsule for USD 14.99 | Speer
They work very well for me.

When I did build them I charged 4.0gr W231 with #9 shot at the time. I'm sorry, I can't find the old notes right now on how much shot I loaded. I used card stock instead of gas checks between the powder and shot and on top with a slight crimp on the case mouth. You might have to toy with it until you get the pattern you're happy with.
Good luck.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I have used thin cardboard, foam, egg cartons, cork etc. thatcan be cut with a round metal or aluminum cutter, that will fit snug in the case.

Auto Permatex, or caulkinghas worked for me to seal the end of the case,

Have fun.

Years ago my brother-in-law and myself spend a night walking through buildings/barns at an abandoned rat infested pig farm. I had loaded about 100 Speer capsules with #8 shot in 44 Mag cases. Our two 6 1/2" barrel Model 29's did the job very well on a lot of nasty rats.

That's a good idea to get a little more shot loaded in the available chamber space.

What do you use as a powder & charge weight in them?

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Waiting for the break of day

fellow forum member WRMoore made some for me using some form of a tapered crimp die using .38 special brass. looks like the shells used in Mounted SASS on the balloons they shoot...

Will post a picture when I find that ammo.

As far as using gas checks, I had no issues using .357 checks. took me a little trial and error on the crimping. Eventually I found the right crimp. No sealing with any adhesive..

Randy

PS. On MY .38 spec. shot shells,I used 4 grains of Unique with a gas check over the powder, took a shotshell capsule and filled it with 7.5 shot (however much that is), then took another gas check with the base down and then seated and crimped.
So far has worked well for me.

I have NO idea where WRMoore found his dies but they are very effective.

Attached Images

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	.38 shotshell 002.jpg (34.6 KB, 64 views)
	.38 shotshell 003.jpg (33.6 KB, 61 views)
	.38 shotshell 004.jpg (27.2 KB, 60 views)

I use the Speer plastic capsules in my 44 Mag and 45 Colt. Using #12 shot is the key... Devastating on snakes at a few feet.

I can't imagine needing so many snake shot cartridges that I would want to reload them. I used one over 45 years ago to kill a rattlesnake. IIRC, I used one to kill a rat in a bathroom about the same time period. They did the job. I never needed them in quantity.

Have always used the Speer shot capsules with pretty good results and of course the .44/.45 capsules always out-performed the .38/.357.
Have used everything from #7.5's to #12 shot.

Did have a fun experience with them once. Was scouting a new piece of woods for deer hunting, carrying a .44 Spl. revolver and kept flushing Woodcock. First round or two in the .44 was handloaded Speer capsules with #9's. Got two Woodcocks on the wing that afternoon and they were soon on the grill at the hunt camp.

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

I have a punch that is the correct dia for an over the powder wad, made from a table back cardboard, in 38/357 cases but have used a wad of tissue tamped down with a small dia piece of a dowel rod. Pour the shot in and stop about 3/16" from full. I use a lit candle and drip wax over the shot. No crimp, no working hardening of the brass. This is the same method I use to fire form 22 Rem Jet brass into 256 Win Mag brass and 22 Hornet into 224 Harvey K-Chuk brass. Works great!
jcelect

My 700-750fps load is 6.7 of WW 231 with a cork card between powder and shot in a 1.51" trimmed 460 case. The taper for the front of the case is formed with a 44-40 die, just enough to seat the case.

454 cases are much shorter but 1/8" longer than a Colt case, that avoids trimming but costs about 1/8 ounce of shot.

Ivan

It also avoids the need for a Judge or Governor.

Thanks for all the good advice. I've asked the same question on a number of sites, with no duplication of results! After reading the posts, I thought "I may have something here!" and rummaged through my reloading supplies. I found about a box and a half of Speer Shot Capsules! Easy solution, and the $$$ are already spent, so that problem is solved. The instructions in the capsule box give some loads, which seem to be a bit on the heavy side, and Speer notes that using a lighter charge of powder may result in a better pattern. I figure if I can get a decent pattern at 10-12 feet, that's all I really need. I have #9 shot salvaged from 12 gauge, #12 shot from somewhere, and #10 or 11 mystery shot that was sold to me as #12. Its size is between the #9 and 12, but I think it may do pretty well, too. One fellow, I can't remember on which site, had an amazing 3 yard pattern, using iirc,#6 1/2 shot and 3 gr. Bullseye. I've had some trouble figuring why a dense charge of a smaller shot like the recommended #12 would be better than a tight pattern of larger shot, which has better penetration. Owell...that's the fun of reloading!

CCI is looking at liability from over penetration! Instead of what is beneficial to the end user!

My #7.5 shot shells can tear a copperhead to ribbons from 20 feet. The #12's at that distance won't stop him for striking.

Ivan

Last year I got motivated by an article to make some 45 Colt shot shell loads, just in case the need arises.

Already had some gas checks for the top so no out-of-pocket $$ there & also had some #8 available. The first obstacle was a wad for over the powder.

To cut the cardboard stock (.031" thick) I had on-hand for the wad over the powder I settled on a 30-06 case cut down to ~7/8" OAL. (The brass is nice & thick at that depth of the case.)

Then I used my large (.50) chamfer tool to put a sharp beveled edge on the case mouth & double stacked the cardboard on a hard surface.

Using the 30-06 case as a punch, & a moderate wack from a hammer, netted the needed wads. If the mouth of the 30-06 case gets dulled it's easy to re-chamfer it.

I put two wads in & pressed them in place with a wooden dowel & was able to get 172grs of #8 in each case before placing the gas check on top & applying the needed roll-crimp to hold it all snugly in place.

Now I'm patiently waiting for that snake to show up.

.



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Waiting for the break of day

Did some in 44 magnum.
Honestly, I think it's a bare minimum for any application.
460 S&W might get interesting though

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it just needs more voltage

I made some of those 45 colt shotshells several years ago, using the gas check over the powder and to close the end. Those gas checks themselves do a lot of damage on wigglys.

I even found a way to make some 45 ACP shotshells using some cut down .308 brass some time ago. (internet) They were a good bit more trouble, but worked okay. Didn't always cycle the slide completely. Had to finish by hand. Same with 22 WMR shothells (CCI) in my PMR 30.

Not all that many snakes here, but building them was fun.

I guess I don't have enough other hobbies ............

You do. Not kill snakes with guns. You kill snakes with garden hoe.

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V/r,
Markham

Did you use a smaller caliber gas check for the one over the powder?

If I remember right I gave that a try with a .45 gas check & it wouldn't go down deep enough because the inside diameter gets smaller as the case walls thicken closer to the base.

Liked to never get it out.

.

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Waiting for the break of day

Pistol Shotload Wad Kits


I bought one for my .32, but haven't had a chance to make any yet, so can't say how well they work.


FWIW

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RJ
SWCA# 2279, SWHF# 709

It was probably 25 years ago I'm guessing,, and I only recall buying one size gas check. I was following instructions from a magazine article if I remember correctly.

If I were to build more now, I think I would just use card stock over the powder and a gas check on top. I still have a couple of the original ones here somewhere.

~50 years ago I made shot cartridges for my top-break .38 S&W Model 3 using .38 Special shells.

There were no dies available for sizing so I’d tap the shells into the cylinder a few times, seemed to work ok.

I can’t recall the powder or shot used (something small) but I do remember using leather wads over the powder and sealing over the shot with melted wax.

Not really good for much, but a lot of fun to make and shoot.

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Richard

All I can say to those killing snakes at over 0 to 8’ with a shot cartridge out of any caliber is luck. Two tests, #1 put up paper at your snake shooting distance and check your pattern. #2 put up a piece of generic cardboard at this distance and note penetration. You will find it very poor. The smaller shot that would tend to give better pattern hasn’t enough weight to penetrate much. The bigger shot had lousy pattern and still very limited range.
I have fooled with it all and never found anything I consider dependable.
I even made full length cartridges from aluminum 410 cases for 45 Colt.
Running them in 41mag die for slight “ neck”.
For situations where bullet is out of the question and some type of small vermin or snake must be shot, the CCI 22LR will suffice at 4’.

I made some for a neighbor who had a rat problem. I used 357 cases and cut some cards from cereal boxes. One over the powder and one over the shot. Then a light roll crimp and some melted candle wax over the shot card to seal it. Old shotgun shells used paraffin to seal also. The 357 case can be used in a 38 Spl. cylinder. No bullet.

If one is already loading 357 a caveman can do it.

I tested the pattern at 10'. It was good enough. Tested in a 6" model 19. YMMV.

I found the Speer caps too fragile and very expensive when you could find them.

No load data unless you want to PM.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Years ago, for unfathomable reasons, became very interested in handgun snake rounds and got inspired by some magazine article on building shot-loads for the .45 Colt. There were no .45 shot capsules then.

I had an old S&W .455 BSR that had been converted to .45 Colt.
I cut down some empty .30-06 cases to absolute cylinder-length. Primed with LP primers (which sat a little deep) and put in a un-recalled quantity of Unique. Cardboard over-powder wad, filled case with #9's, cardboard over-shot wad, a roll-crimp and a dab of Elmer's glue atop the top wad.

Used some ultra-thin half-moon clips for chambering 3 at a time.
It was a decent payload of shot, and the BSR's rifling was somewhat indistinct so patterns were OK out to 9-10 yards for most purposes.

Looking back - it was a lot of fiddly work for not much result. IIRC, I never shot a snake with it.

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

have some 357 shotshell reloads a friend loaded some 35+ years ago. yellow plastic? cap on the brass. 9 shot i think. but at 3 ft., snake range, they only shoot a 3" pattern. the 22 cal snake loads work better on snakes.