.38 S&W load data

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Does anyone have load data for .38 S&W? Or a source for dies, bullets, casings, and molds?

I have seen a period (sometime in the 1890s I believe) advertisement that specifies a 146 grain bullet over 15 grains of powder, but which bullet was that, and which powder? I assume black powder but which one? 2f, 3f, or 4f? It advertised a penetration of 4.5 7/8 inch pine boards, what’s that translate to in ballistics gel? And is that realistic?

I would like to replicate the British .38/200 load, what is the data on that and can that be safely used with an 1897 Safety Hammerless?
 
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The British 38/200 military load is now considered too hot for the Safety Hammerless and similar revolvers.

The Colt 38 Super Police loading of 38 S&W uses a 200 grain Lead RNFP bullet that is still considered safe in GOOD Condition top break revolvers.

My old copy of "Cartridges of the World" lists 3.1 grains of Unique powder. I have never found an exact replacement bullet, but in the 1980's I used cast RN 200 grain bullets for 35 Remington with very good results. These "Hard Hitting" and "High Energy" loadings are only 176 foot pounds of energy. They do seem to have a better penetration effect than the 146 grain lead RN loading from my experience. These guns were not designed to use jacketed bullets!

My Safety Hammerless, is from 1896, and I won't use the Super Police load in it! My 1921 Regulation Police (Hand Ejector) does get an occasional cylinder of that Super Police Load.

Ivan
 
The one time I reloaded 38 S&W-over 40 years ago (!) I found an HBWC over 2.7 grains of Bullseye gave me excellent accuracy in my 1932 No. 2 Mk 1 Enfield.
The RCBS website lists 38 S&W Dies, a shellholder, Lyman lists dies.
 
145g LRN is the right bullet available today. Missouri Bullets have them in stock, which is amazing given the fact that so many calibers are still out of stock.
Missouri Bullet Company

As for powder, I do not shoot BP because of the clean-up issues, soap and water inside and out. There are many loading tables out there, but if you go to Hodgdons site and HP-38 powder, you will find a good load that is safe for top-break revolvers.
 
38 S&W

I picked up a Colt Police Positive and a British Victory Model I few years ago. The only factory ammunition that I had was some very old .38 S&W and Colt NP stamped rounds. At this time there was nothing for factory stuff in this calibers at the local stores.

I bought a large qty of new Starline and some 158 gr lead rn cast from a local supplier. I used AA# 5 for this run and it worked well.

I later bought 550 new PPU brass and 1,000 Missouri Bullet .361 dia 146 gr. I switched to W231 for this run. So far so good. I like the Missouri Bullet .361 dia. I seated the bullet to the same depth as the .38 S&W factory round. W231 meters very well from my RCBS powder measure. It also goes a long way for the light charges in the .38 S&W and .32 S&W Long.

Lyman cast bullet book and Speer manual have data for this round.
 
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If you are an avid reloader (as I am) and don't own a 38 S&W die set (as I don't!) you may be in luck. You can mix and match to gather a set of "Mixed Dies" for this caliber.

For a suitable FL Sizing die, you can substitute a 38 Super/ 38 ACP FL Die.
For a flaring die a 38 Super, 9mm, or sometimes a 38 special flaring die may be used.
For Seating and Crimp dies, I use 38 Super or 9mm for seating to length and a 9mm Taper crimp die last.

Most brands require a different shell holder for 38 S&W versus a 38 Special.

Another FYI tidbit is: Some (but not all) factory 38 special revolvers will chamber and fire 38 S&W. My F-I-L's 1958 issue Model 10 chambered 38 S&W, one of his cadet classmates had the next consecutive serial number but would not chamber 38 S&W! My Models 10-7, 36 no dash & 49 no dash do not chamber 38 S&W, but my Model 28-2 & model 686 no dash. Those of you with Winchester/Rossi Model 92 and Marlin 1894 357 carbines, the 38 S&W (Colt 38 Super Police) and 38 Short Colt will usually jam up and require disassembly to clear! JUST LIKE THE INSTRUCTIONS SAY! (Ask me how I know.)

Ivan
 
Buy a 38 S&W die set for $35 - $40, well worth the price. 38 S&W dies are all larger than 38 Special and you should not use 38 Special anything to load this caliber. Bullets are different, .357 vs .361, dies and shell holder is different, and brass is different.

In addition, I own many 38 Special S&W revolvers and 38 S&W will not chamber in any of them without using a hammer! :eek:
 
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Here’s a link to some reliable loading data. Reloading The .38 Smith & Wesson - Reload Ammo I load batches of several hundred so its beennaxx CD while since loading but have used 231 most of the time. I also use the Missouri bullets with starline brass and Lee 38 S&W dies. I’m loading to minimums and shoot them in my terrier. No issues and very pleasant to shoot.
 
Here is some load data from the Lyman Reloading Handbook 45th Edition copyright 1970.
You can also find .38 S&W reloading data at the MD Smith website (reloadammo.com), where they distinguish between loads for “break top” and solid frame revolvers. (Just noticed - same as the site above from .38SuperMan)
 

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I have used 0.361 diameter lead bullets at 158-178 grain for years in Webley's and S&W 38 S&W revolvers (all from around 1940 vintage). No problems at all and certainly accurate enough at 10 yards to "spoil somebody's day". Dave_n
 
.358 lead bullets will work fine in a .38 S&W revolver if you want to use them. If you have a solid frame revolver, it is easy to reload the .38 S&W to produce standard .38 Special ballistics if that is where you want to go. But do not shoot those loads in an old top break revolver. The real challenge is developing a load that shoots close to the point of aim. Indeed, some .38 Special revolvers will accept and fire .38 S&W cartridges. Most will not. The same can be said about using .38 Super cartridges. I also reload .38 S&W using a .38 Super sizing die and 9mm expanding and seating dies. I have been doing that since the 1970s.
 
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So I have a top break third model Safety Hammerless, so it looks like I’m black powder only?

Does anyone have the black powder load data? Is it 15 grains like the old add shows or can it be loaded hotter? Also, will Swiss 4f work?

Assuming I did that, would that give me any extra power vs the very very light commercial smokeless loads that seem to be available? In other words is it even worth hand loading?
 
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