The people stuck using ancient Windows computers

[shunka]

I started on punchcards and paper tape. Used standard telco modems (with the handset adapters) and learned Fortran, Cobol, and IITRAN.

Got too many old but good laptops still running various pre-win10.

My main laptop is a toshiba frankenputer running a very special castrated form of Win-7, having disabled almost all windows services and using virtual sandbox and special “magic” intrusion detection…

When I cant run my version anymore I plan on converting all but one desktop to Linux, since I used to be a backline Sun Unix kernel developer/support engineer. My desktop at the time was a Sun Solaris workstation and I kept a background program called Gabriel running. It sounded a trumpet anytime an intrusion or anomally was detected.


SWMBO is getting tired of hearing me cuss about the “new kids that cant write, test, or support software!”

 

[mtgianni]

When I retired I was using a transfer prover to test the accuracy of natural gas meters. Our price for the prover was around $38,000 and it required a $5,000 going over from the factory every 5 years. Their software had to be compatible with Windows XP as their were companies that still had laptops using that to control their provers.

So for that kind of an investment utilities could not bear to issue a $500 laptop to a working hand.

 

[Jay Pyles]

BBC article here.
Some comments re using "ancient" Win7 on LVSteve's post about looking for a small, cheap computer made me think this might be interesting. We're surrounded by some seriously legacy software in all sorts of places.

Here's a look inside the strange, stubborn world of obsolete Windows machines.

Earlier this year I was on my way to a checkup at a doctor's office in New York City. As I rode up to the 14th floor, my eyes were drawn to a screen built into the side of the lift. Staring back was a glimpse into the history of computing. There, in a gleaming hospital full of state-of-the-art machines, was an error message from an operating system released almost a quarter of a century ago. The elevator was running Windows XP...

..."Many ATMs still operate on legacy Windows systems, including Windows XP and even Windows NT...

...For four years, psychiatrist Eric Zabriskie would show up to his job at the US Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and start the day waiting for a computer to boot up. "I had to get to the clinic early because sometimes it would take 15 minutes just to log into the computer," Zabriskie says. "Once you're in you try to never log out. I'd hold on for dear life. It was excruciatingly slow."

If anyone has an old PC that reads 5 1/2" disks, Dene Grigar, director of the Electronic Literature Lab at Washington State University, Vancouver, would like to hear from you!

My Lenovo ideapad (circa 2012) has been running Windows 7 Ultimate since new. Works great and I purchased alll of the Bibles for it at the same time for Windows 2012. Winning!!!

 

[Nick43]

Hasselblad isn’t the only company. My previous scanner was a Fuji Lanovia Quattro that was $50,000. I used it for several years and Fuji decided to get out of scanners. They fired the two tech that knew and serviced the machines and chucked all the parts inventory in the dumpster. No more service so I found a buyer in Australia who wanted it. I actually had a second one I bought for parts so he at least had a chance to keep it going a while. Understand these are not like your $60 HP desk scanner. These are huge machines and super complex.

This is when I bought the Hasselblad scanner thinking they would keep making, updating and servicing these machines for years but I was wrong.

So I’m keeping my fingers crossed and hope it keeps running.

I have a copy of Paperport Deluxe 7.0 scan software that I got with my Canon scanner years ago. Love it! Unfortunately, it won't run under WIN 10 on my (somewhat) new HP and I would have to spend a LOT of money to update to a current version of Paperport. The solution: I've gone into the Compatability Properties and told Paperport that I'm "really" using WIN 7. Saved 'till my next OS upgrade!

 

[oldbrownhat]

...SWMBO is getting tired of hearing me cuss about the “new kids that cant write, test, or support software!”

True confessions: That would include me. My first computer was a used Mac SE in 1989. (Should have kept it as I now could get at least the king's ransom I paid for it back then!) A few years later I took over doing the surtitles (projected translations) for Vancouver Opera, which used a big, finicky GE projector attached to a clunky IBM XT runnng DOS. Before each new production I had to sit down, take a deep breath and remind myself how to negotiate the command line interface.

 

[first-model]

25 years in the tech industry has taught me not to rely on old computers. My duty cycle for a computer is generally three years; after that I proactively start shopping for a replacement. Here's why.

First: computers and their software, like most other machines, have finite lifespans. I'd much rather manage an upgrade when there's not a crisis of equipment or software failure, and when I can have the old and the new machines running properly. With a bit of planning, it's easy. I did my last upgrade two weeks ago, and it only took me about an hour to get the new machine up and running fully.

Second: Support for computers (and operating systems and software) gets iffy after about three years. Since I make my living with my computer, I prefer to be able to get parts and service quickly and readily. If it's under warranty, so much the better.

Third: incremental upgrades are always easier than multi-generational upgrades. Here's what I mean: upgrading from the last version of Windows to the current version of Windows is going to be much easier than, say, upgrading from Windows XP to Windows 11. Ditto for just about any piece of software. Time spent upgrading is time not spent working and making money, and I want for that to be as easy as possible.

Fourth: security is a very real thing, and older software is inevitably more prone to security breeches than newer software. With a properly managed and well-maintained firewall this shouldn't be an issue for most people, but I'd still rather not take my chances.

Lastly (and a bit off-topic, but I'll mention it anyways): all of this is why I run Apple computers, and why I refuse to touch anything infected with the "Windows" virus. The Apple operating system is built on top of Unix, which is more robust than anything to come out of Microsoft. In 25 years of running Apple products I've yet to install antivirus, antimalware, antitrojan, or "anti-anything" software. Yes, Apple costs a bit more out of the gate, but I save that tenfold over the life of the computer when I look at the time and money I'd need to spend to "secure" and maintain a Windows computer.

I have a strict policy of not doing "tech support" for friends or family anymore, but that doesn't stop people from calling me and telling me their woes. Most problems I hear about stem from old and obsolete software/hardware (and a lack of maintenance), and I usually remind them that the "I'll run it until it breaks" philosophy has probably caught up with them.

I know I sound like an ass saying some of this, but these are just lessons learned from a lifetime in the trenches—and a very real desire to have my computer work for me (and not the other way around). I've been on keyboards since the early 1980s and have worked professionally in just about every major platform out there (DOS, Windows, Unix, Linux, MacOS, VMS, z/OS, and probably a dozen others), so I don't take this topic lightly.

Mike

 

[randy86314]

Back in the late 1980's someone decided that we should keep all our maintenance records on a computer system. We have 17 work centers tied to one main brain. Slow is not the word!! It would take about 45 minutes to do the computer sign off for the repair. I could do the paper work with a MAF (Maintenance Action Form) and a pen in 5 minutes or less. Eventually they decided not to use that system.

It was good enough for Chesty Puller!

 

[DWalt]

TRS 80, TI 99/4A, Commodore 64….. Punchcards and cassette tapes. Yeah, I was impressed with 8” Floppies. I’m old.

Back in the early 1980s, I remember we had dedicated word processors in the office that used the very large floppies, 8” seems about right. They used an impact printer that sounded like a machine gun when printing. It had to be housed inside a sound reducing enclosure because it was so loud. My very first home computer was a Timex/Sinclair, one of the later ones, maybe a 1500. Very frustrating, every key had four functions, guaranteed to slow down the world’s fastest typist to a crawl. It did use tape cassettes for saving programming. I think I may still have some of them somewhere. Not much fun, but I did write a few useful programs for it. I then got a Tandy 1000 which was PC-compatible and far easier to use. At least by the standards of pre-Windows days. I have many stories about my experiences with it. I learned a lot by using it. I also go back to programming for a mainframe IBM computer on punchcards during the 1960s. But I don’t remember much, except that it was a frustrating experience.

 

[first-model]

My very first home computer was a Timex/Sinclair, one of the later ones, maybe a 1500. Very frustrating, every key had four functions, guaranteed to slow down the world’s fastest typist to a crawl. It did use tape cassettes for saving programming. I think I may still have some of them somewhere. Not much fun, but I did write a few useful programs for it.

The Timex Sinclair ZX-81 was one of my first computers, and it taught me a ton. Their implementation of BASIC was easy to get going with, and Z80 assembler was accessible to anyone with some patience and inclination to learn. I recall that the spiral bound owner's manual had some Z80 basics in it, and it wasn't tough to find other good material.

I went from the ZX-81 to a Commodore 64. The latter felt like a rocket ship in comparison, but I found 6502/6510 coding a lot more challenging.

Mike

 

[DocSkinner]

Replacing a keyboard is not too difficult. I did it on my old Toshiba not long ago, and now it's like new again. Just dig around online and find a replacement keyboard, then look for a YT video on how to do it.

You can also just use a basic USB keyboard...

 

[DocSkinner]

You can also just run a virtual XP machine in win11...

 

[Glynn863]

We still have my wife's IBM PS/2 that she bought around 1990. It was "high tech" at the time of purchase, with a 20MB HD and a 3-1/2" floppy drive. We've had it stored in a closet about 25 years. Its last uses were some genealogy stuff and playing archaic games like "Wheel of Fortune". It was working fine when put into storage.

I have a Toshiba laptop that I purchased in early 2013 IIRC from a pawn shop. It had an i3 processor, came with Windows 8, which was fairly new then, and later was updated to Windows 8.1. I still use it, because the laptop has a big screen (17.3"). I have maxxed out the memory and just updated to Windows 10 last year. I also replaced the battery last year. It's a little slow (sometimes), but it meets my needs for web surfing and other. It has a CD drive, which a lot of laptops no longer have.

I recently acquired a "free" Dell laptop from work. We recently did a massive software / hardware upgrade and they decided to dispose of practically all of the "obsolete" stuff. I was one of the newer employees, so my laptop was new in October 2022. It has Windows 11 on it. Employees were told that they could salvage anything they wanted, before the rest went to a computer recycling business. So I got this laptop, a complete Dell desktop setup for my wife (computer (Win11), 24" monitor, keyboard / mouse), and a Hitachi 24" LED TV that was being used as a monitor. That monitor now sits on the top shelf of my garage workbench. I bought a remote from eBay for it.

 

[pmanton]

We should still be using DOS.
Live would be much simpler.

 

[Repeater]

I have five operating computers in my basement...from Windows 98 to Windows NT, to Windows XP-Pro. I still have one 8" disc drive, a box full of 5 1/4 and 3 inch drives, and software from DOS 2.1 to Windows 10. I keep the floppy discs stored in a sealed container.
I run Autocad LT and Autocad 2010 and have them internally networked but rarely connect to the internet unless I use a virtual machine or just access what I need with my newer computer.

And I have an Apple 2e with all the necessary peripherals on the shelf.
Crap...guess I am old!

 

[AJ]

It was good enough for Chesty Puller!

Chesty was long gone by that time!

 

[oldbrownhat]

We should still be using DOS.
Live would be much simpler.

WE??? Who is this "we" of whom you speak?
How about a "command line of choice" option for the Forum?

 

[Model 15-4ever]

I like new tech as much as the next person.

But what I don't like is when the new software that is required to run on the new OS, has a vastly different user interface than the previous version. I really don't want to waste time learning new procedures - every 3 years or so - for what are essentially administrative tasks in my life: paying bills, reading email, composing documents, organizing files and photos.

Most of the software "improvements", aren't.

 

[mikerjf]

I had one of the T-shirts with an 8” pocket… for your 8” “shirt-pocket” floppy!

First programming was hand-assembling 6502 machine code on a SYM-1 bare board computer.

 

[LouisianaJoe]

Back in the early 1980s, I remember we had dedicated word processors in the office that used the very large floppies, 8” seems about right. They used an impact printer that sounded like a machine gun when printing. It had to be housed inside a sound reducing enclosure because it was so loud. My very first home computer was a Timex/Sinclair, one of the later ones, maybe a 1500. Very frustrating, every key had four functions, guaranteed to slow down the world’s fastest typist to a crawl. It did use tape cassettes for saving programming. I think I may still have some of them somewhere. Not much fun, but I did write a few useful programs for it. I then got a Tandy 1000 which was PC-compatible and far easier to use. At least by the standards of pre-Windows days. I have many stories about my experiences with it. I learned a lot by using it. I also go back to programming for a mainframe IBM computer on punchcards during the 1960s. But I don’t remember much, except that it was a frustrating experience.

I worked for WANG Labs during that time period as a technical support person. I installed many word processing and VS data processing computers. I also wrote COBOL programs on the VS.

 

[LouisianaJoe]

I have been programming computers since 1966 on IBM, WANG VS, and PC networks using Windows NT and SQLServer. I later wrote web based software. Some of the programs that I wrote over 25 years ago are still in use. My first hard drive was 5 MB and was the size of a washing machine. I started PCs with the IBM XT, and have evolved with computers over the years. My current PC is 4X4X2 inches and is the fastest one yet for me.

I have migrated software with new Operating Systems. I have used Virtual Machines(VM) to run old Operating Systems. Sometimes they do not work without old hardware. Fortunately there are currently USB devices that support old stuff like floppies, parallel printer, SCSI, and SATA.