Loading with a Winchester .32-20 Tool

OrlontheBrave · Aug 7, 2024

Hello friends,

While I wait for bits to come in for my .32-20 project, I thought I’d try loading up some rounds. Unfortunately I don’t have dies yet, however I do have this antique Winchester loading tool and a Lee case length gauge (in lieu of the original peanut, lost to time).

Just stick the gauge in the hole, stick an empty case on top, and squeeze. The primer pops right out.

Next comes priming. Basically the opposite: stick the case in the other hole, rest a primer on top, and squeeze.

After filling with 3.2 grains W231 we have seating. I start the bullets by hand, then stick the affair back in the first hole and squeeze. They come out ugly (the tool came with a mold for a 115 gr round nose bullet, and I’m using a 100 gr LRNFP, which might account for that).

Anyways, the proof is in the pudding so we’ll see how they do at the range.

DWalt · Aug 7, 2024

I use the similar but much more recent Lyman 310 tong tool for loading .45-70. Like the old Buffalo hunters did. Sort of a fun experience to do. No idea if Lyman still makes the tong tool. Probably not.

OrlontheBrave · Aug 7, 2024

I’ve gotta admit the Winchester tool is handier and easier to use than I thought it would be. The only downside is of course it only does .32-20. Looks like the Lyman 310 fixes that problem.

I wonder if my range would let me handload on the picnic benches.

gwpercle · Aug 8, 2024

Now That ... is what you call ... "Hand Loading" !

Pretty Danged Awesome ... Thanks for posting the process ...
I bought one of those hand tools of EBay years ago ... just as an antique tool ... I do reload too ... never knew how to use it ...
Now I Know ... Thanks,
Gary

ussmanlovede36 · Aug 8, 2024

the old tool can still get the job done. Thanks for posting

Green Frog · Aug 8, 2024

Been watching your thread on resurrecting the revolver with interest, but you’ve gone to another whole level with your reloader! Winchester stopped making them before 1900, leaving the field open to Ideal (which was started by a former Winchester employee!)

That little bullet you mention is OK, but I highly recommend that you seek out the Winchester bullet mould that went with it (or the Ideal 3118 or Lyman 3118j the bullet that was developed with and for the 32-20. They regularly show up on auctions and gun shows at reasonable prices. I actually sold the complete set, minus decapping spud, at a gun show last year for just a couple of hundred bucks. Many years ago the 3118 became my go to bullet for all 32 revolver rounds.

By the way, Lyman has discontinued all production of their version of this hand tool and the one little company that served as a clearing house for these tongs and dies shuttered several years ago as well. Now you have to compete with other shooters, tool collectors, and the vultures trying to take advantage of both groups to acquire any of these items you need. If you want get started in this field, be ready for a search!

Keep us posted on this project OtB, it’s getting better all the time!

Froggie

AJ · Aug 8, 2024

Have a chunk of steel that is a gage for .32-20 on the side. I believe it is used for checking the chambering for length and size of the chamber. It you want it PM me.

AJ

TIMETRIPPER · Aug 8, 2024

The OP gets an attaboy from me for retro reloading!
I have a pair of the old Ideal reloading tools in 32-20, the precursors to the 310 Lyman but with an integral mold.
One is a Marlin/Ideal that casts a 115 gr FP bullet. The other is marked 32 Colts Lightening
and casts a 100 gr FP.
I also have one for 32 S&W, 32 S&W long, 32-40, 38 S&W, 38-55, and 38-40 WCF. Like the OP I use the Lee case length gauge for a primer de-capper for those that are missing the "peanut". And have cast good usable bullets from all. Not a fast way to reload but good enough in a pinch!

John

Ivan the Butcher · Aug 8, 2024

Every Spring I try to load 100 rounds of handgun ammo on a 310 tool. Some of my die sets are Lyman, some are Ideal. I've done 38 S&W, 38 Special, 44 S&W (Russian) & 44 Special.

Knowing what to do and having everything set out, I've never got 100 rounds in less than 2 hours and closer to 3 in normal, and that is using a Lyman #55 powder drop. Lee scoops are about as fast, but weighing each charge can add even more time.

Tong tools are pretty good if the fired cases came from one gun and the reloads are going in the same gun. Multiple guns will require full length sizing.

Ivan

OrlontheBrave · Aug 8, 2024

Thanks Froggie! I plan on ordering some 115 gr RN bullets along with proper dies next month, and I'll keep an eye out for the proper mold. There's one on eBay now, but listed for a lot! I see why ideal made tools with the mold built in, so the two tools don't get separated.

John, I wouldn't mind scooping up some more in other calibers like you have. For a tool designed 100+ years ago they're surprisingly painless to use. I keep my single stage press bolted to a board and stored away when not in use, and it's a lot easier to just grab a hand tool than set the whole press up.

Ivan, 100 rounds in 2-3 hours is pretty fast in my book, although your hands must get tired. I use Lee and homemade powder throws, and only weigh the first few to make sure it's regulated to what the guide says. It can be pretty fast.

DWalt · Aug 8, 2024

With a .45-70 sizing/depriming die in it, the 310 makes a pretty good depriming tool for many smaller fired cases. If all you want to do is depriming.

BigMuddy · Aug 9, 2024

Very Cool! I have one of those tools for my original Winchester 1873’s both in 38 w.c.f. I have done educational demonstrations on re-loading with the tool at several of our historical re-enactment events. We do an “education day” for 5th graders and the kids like seeing how to “make bullets”.

Those tools don’t really put a crimp on the case, but since they were loaded full of black powder there isn’t a chance for the bullet to get pushed back into the case when loaded in the rifle’s tube magazine.

I’ve never seen one of the “peanuts” for de-priming. Would love to find one.

Dan

TIMETRIPPER · Aug 9, 2024

Three of my Ideal tool have the original "peanut". They are specific to each cartridge but are usually missing. None are marked for cartridge but all have replaceable de-capping pins. Pictured below is my best condition set, for the 38-40 WCF. Note the set screw on the peanut. They could be easily made by any competent machinist or gunsmith if you had the dimensions from an original. But the Lee stem works perfectly and only costs a few dollars.

I've seen individual peanuts for sale on EBay but they command ridiculous prices. EBay has also been the source of all but one of my tools. At one time they could be had for less than $50, but lately they usually sell for $100 or more. I always keep an eye out for them but rarely see any for sale at auctions or flea markets.

John

Green Frog · Aug 9, 2024

OrlontheBrave said:
Thanks Froggie! I plan on ordering some 115 gr RN bullets along with proper dies next month, and I'll keep an eye out for the proper mold. There's one on eBay now, but listed for a lot! I see why ideal made tools with the mold built in, so the two tools don't get.

OtB, be aware that both the original Winchester 115 gr bullet and the virtually identical one from Ideal are round nose flat point bullets. In fact, they look a lot like the 100 gr RNFPs you already have, just longer. In a tube Fed lever gun you want a flat surface bearing on the base (and primer) of the cartridge ahead in the tube. Of course this isn’t critical with revolvers or single shots, but the idea was to have the same cartridge for both your hand gun and your rifle… it was a “Cowboy Thang”!

Froggie

PS If you are having trouble finding a mould worth buying, I could probably cast up a sample of a couple of dozen from my old Ideal mould for you to try.

OrlontheBrave · Aug 9, 2024

Hi Dan and John,

Somewhere on the internet, I can't recall from where, I found pictures and dimensions for the .32-20 peanut. I thought about having one machined, but now I know the case length gauge works fine I probably won't bother. And I got a deal for this tool; I think I paid about $50 shipped for it on eBay this past winter.

Thanks, Froggie! That makes sense. It looks like fortunately 115 gr LRNFP are a lot easier to find online than basic round nose so that works out nicely.

And thank you for the offer! I haven't gotten into casting yet, but when I do I'll shoot you a message. I'll likely be casting .313 in the 100-120 gr range, as I can use them in .32 long and .32-20, as well as .30-40 Krag in a powder puff load.

Ivan the Butcher · Aug 10, 2024

OrlontheBrave said:
Thanks, Froggie! That makes sense. It looks like fortunately 115 gr LRNFP are a lot easier to find online than basic round nose so that works out nicely.

And thank you for the offer! I haven't gotten into casting yet, but when I do I'll shoot you a message. I'll likely be casting .313 in the 100-120 gr range, as I can use them in .32 long and .32-20, as well as .30-40 Krag in a powder puff load.

I bought the gas checked version of Lyman 3118 around 1980/81. I size the castings in .309, .311 and .314. The 3118 bullet style is the correct bullet for 32-20 (32WCF) and 32 Colt new police. I went with the Gas Checked version for use as a M-1 Carbine bullet. It is also useful in 30-30, 308. 30-06, 303 Savage, and 300 Savage for plinker loads when sized .309. For 303 British, 7.7 Jap., 7.65 Arg. &. 7.62 by 39 & 7.62 by 54R when sized to .314 for plinkers. My C-96 Broomhandle and CZ 52 use that bullet in .311. This is the most useful bullet mold in handloading!

Ivan

TIMETRIPPER · Aug 10, 2024

Pretty neat thread!
And while we are on the roll with these old reloading tools, I have one Winchester tool in my collection. Its a different type from the OPs
and for the 32-40 WCF rifle cartridge. The base screws off to insert the case for decapping and bullet seating and primers are seated externally. As the other type of reloading tools mentioned previously, the Lee case length stem will work for the often lost original decapping rod.
Not a fast tool to use, but well made.

John

AJ · Aug 10, 2024

As per a PM from OrlontheBrave, here is the gage I had mistakenly identified as .32-20, which is actually for a .32 Winchester Special. Also an adapter that turns a 12 gauge shotgun into a .32-20.

Ivan the Butcher · Aug 10, 2024

AJ said:
Also an adapter that turns a 12 gauge shotgun into a .32-20.

I do a lot of cartridge conversions, I have no idea of how you would do that, could you please explain the process.

Ivan

Green Frog · Aug 10, 2024

AJ, the item you show in pictures 1&2 appears to be one of the old full length sizing Ideal/Lyman used to sell for use with the 310 and later with the TruLine Jr press. They basic tools neck sized only, but where FL sizing was needed these dies worked, albeit slowly.
In use the lubed case was pushed in with a press (or sometimes by hammering

) then a rod that came with the die was used to push the die back out. I’ll admit, it’s not very fast, but it got the job done back before “full size” presses with FL sizing dies were widely available.

Loading with a Winchester .32-20 Tool

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