IMR 4831Sc in .270 Winchester

growr

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A lot of research indicates that 60.00 grains of IMR4831Sc is a pet load for many folks with 130gr. bullet (SGK)
This load fills the case past the shoulder of the case which would result in a compressed load.
Am I making much adieu about nothing? i haven't chronographed this load yet.

Randy
 
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Back when military surplus 4831 from Hodgdon was plentiful in the 1960s and 1970s and dirt cheap, many used it for reloading .30-‘06 and similarly-sized cartridges. Compressed loads were the norm. I used a lot of it. It worked OK. I think it had been a standard propellant used in .50 BMG or maybe 20mm. Not sure. As I remember, propellant weights for .30-‘06 were in the low 60s.

At that time, most hunters and shooters thought that .30-‘06 and .270 were about the only calibers anyone needed, before all the calibers du jour craze of today caught on. And they were right. A .270 with lightweight bullets makes a very decent varmint rifle. A .30-‘06 with heavy bullets is plenty good enough for use on most anything that walks the earth, other than maybe elephant or Cape buffalo.
 
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I've used much H4831 in the .270 with 130 gain bullets and I might use 60 grains and consider it about max. IMR4831 is faster than the original H version.

You might be able to safely use 60 grains of IMR4831, but I'd back off some before trying it. I don't believe most manuals will show charges that heavy for 130 grain bullets; some older manuals might. Where did you get your data? Hope it was a reputable paper published source and not online.

While the 4831s are fine .270 powders, I've seen slightly better accuracy generally with H4350, but this may vary from gun to gun.
 
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data was from several older manual I have from Winchester, Sierra, Hornady and Nosler.

On the label of the Hodgdon 4831 Sc canister it lists 59.5 grains.....

Randy
 
data was from several older manual I have from Winchester, Sierra, Hornady and Nosler.

On the label of the Hodgdon 4831 Sc canister it lists 59.5 grains.....

Randy

Okay, it looks like you're using H4831 SC and not IMR 4831 as you mentioned in your original post. Big difference. Your data is fine, but that may be a max load. Good luck.
 
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IMR 4831 has historically been loaded 2 gr lighter than H 4831 in 3006 parent cases. Safety First. Even tho I loosened many primer pocket in 270 loads.
 
OK, depending upon the age of your manual, the old manuals simply listed 4831 because Hodgdon was the only source. As noted above, IMR & Hodgdon versions are NOT the same and use different load data.

I don't recall the charge but I do recall that Jack O'Conner wrote that he shook/vibrated the case to get his charge of (H)4831 into the case. A wee bit of powder compression is OK, but work up to your load. The data listed on the Hodgdon bottle is what was safe in THEIR test barrel. YMMV.
 
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60 grains of H4831SC under a 130 grain bullet has been my standard .270 deer load for decades. Great accuracy with Hornady Spire Points, Nosler Partitions, pretty much any conventional lead core bullet you care to seat. Never an issue or sign of excess pressure in multiple rifles. I might back off a couple of grains for a solid copper Barnes X or whatever fancy monolithic projectile they are selling these days, otherwise load and shoot!
 
OK, depending upon the age of your manual, the old manuals simply listed 4831 because Hodgdon was the only source. As noted above, IMR & Hodgdon versions are NOT the same and use different load data.

I don't recall the charge but I do recall that Jack O'Conner wrote that he shook/vibrated the case to get his charge of (H)4831 into the case. A wee bit of powder compression is OK, but work up to your load. The data listed on the Hodgdon bottle is what was safe in THEIR test barrel. YMMV.

I do recall the charge and allegedly the pressure was about 48,000 - copper crusher numbers. Today's pressure measuring equipment might show higher pressures.
 
Hodgdon’s shows 60.0 grains of H4831 as max load and compressed for two specific 130 grain bullets. Hornady shows 62.0 grains H4831 for their 130 grain bullets. Sierra peaks at 57.8 grains for their boat tailed 130. Barnes shows a compressed load of 60.5 (interesting). I always use the bullet manufacturer’s data if I can get it.

Personally I try to avoid compressed loads. Sure you might eke out another 100 fps but I don’t feel it’s necessary to push to maximum loads most of the time. I’m more interested in accuracy.

I don’t have my notes handy but IIRC 58 grains of H4831sc under a 130 grain Sierra turned out very accurate in my sporterized Mauser 98.
 
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Rockquarry is correct....I typed in IMR instead of the correct H4831 Sc.

Opps!

Randy
 
I bought 2- 100 pound containers of the old Surplus H4831. Used it in everything...from 243 to 300 H&H. ...really too slow for 243. Worked great in 257 Ai and 25-06. It was the powder for 25-06 and 270 though. You CAN get more of the shortcut in a case these days..and yep vibrating the case helps get more in...Oh price on the 1st 100 was 70 dollars delivered IIRC Railway express(1965-66 approx). The other was a bit more I still have the Hodgdon pamphlet/loading book/price sheet here somewhere
 
Been reloading bottleneck rifle cartridges, and including .270 Winchester, with H4831 and H4831SC for over 40 years.

There is nothing inherently wrong or dangerous with a compressed propellent charge... provided the resulting load is not overpressure. Slower burning powders frequently require a compressed charge. In the .270 Winchester case, this includes H4831 and H4831SC.

The "SC" is an acronym for "short cut", which refers to H4831 extruded kernels cut shorter to better fit into standard cases like the .270 Winchester (as opposed to magnum cases). H4831SC also meters better than the original, with less chance of a kernel being cut by a powder measure. The ballistics and load data for H4831 and H4831Sc are identical.

As others have noted, IMR4831 load data is NOT identical to the Hodgdon product.

Regarding H4831 and 130 grain bullets, back in the day... 62.0 grains was considered a maximum safe charge. Some rifles and some brass would take that without excessive pressure. Over the years, as loading manuals became more conservative (or watered-down, depending on your viewpoint), the maximum charges have been lowered.

While I've had a couple of .270 Win bolt action rifles that have shot that load well, I currently load 60.0 grains H4831SC with the 130 grain bullet. It's not maximum in my rifle with my components, but it is a slightly compressed charge in Hornady brass.

The case capacity of various brands of brass differ and this affects pressure. Federal, for example, was generally thicker brass with less capacity than Winchester, and could not be loaded with the same charge. I once used PPU .270 Win brass that required a safe charge in Winchester brass to be lowered a full 2 grains.... with corresponding loss of velocity. These case capacities can vary over time and manufacturing date.

Various brands of bullets also have their own characteristics based on design, ogive, hardness, etc. These affect pressure too.

The manufacturers creating the loading data and doing the testing, are dealing with their own individual rifles and/or test barrels, under their own testing conditions including brass and seating depth, with bullets of their own making or choosing. And after finding what is maximum safe under SAAMI pressure standards for those specific components and equipment, they back off as a safety margin. Few manuals provide any specific pressure information on their loads - Hodgdon is a rare exception.

As you are reloading for your own rifle and components, consider the manuals a starting guide. I would advise against starting with any maximum load out of any loading manual... reduce 3% and work up. With a 60.0 grain charge, that would be 58.0 grains.

Compressed charges are not in and of themselves dangerous, so long as they are appropriate.

PS. Heavily compressed charges of ball propellant are a bad idea. Compressed ball powder can fuse in unpredictable fashion, resulting in either dangerous hangfires or inconsistent pressurization.

As an example, back in the day (1956), the new .458 Winchester Magnum was factory loaded at close 2200 fps with the 500 grain bullet, to achieve the mythical 5000 ft lbs of energy for marketing purposes. The ball propellant used was very heavily compressed, and firing the cartridges 10 years later resulted in a number of the above-mentioned anomalies: both hangfires and "bloopers". This was probably due to a combination of the compression and storage under conditions of heat and humidity. The Winchester factory ammunition was reduced to 2050 fps spec, and many lots barely broke 1950 fps in typical rifles with 22-24" barrels.
 
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A maximum charge of IMR 4831 in my win 270 bolt action with a 130gr pill,
does 2970 fps with 60c grs of powder.

For Antelope in 100 degree weather , I load that bullet down to 2,700fps,
so I don't have to worry about chamber pressures & safety of my loads.

My rifle shot tighter groups with IMR 4350 & 4064 at factory Dup and meat saver speeds.

Have fun.
 
270Win and Rem ADL

Great Thread. I really like the 270Win, also
the 270Win Short Mag.

I’ve gotten some good notes from here. My
favorite reload is 130gr Horn. SPFB/IMR4350
51.0grs (2800fps?) I got a chance to chronograph
it in Cheyenne WY verified 2830fps. That’s
what I basically want, so all worked out.

This is from shooting in a plain old circa 2000
Remington ADL 270Win 22”bbl. It’s been an
accurate rifle and easy on the eyes too.

Thanks again
 
The 270 WCF was my dad's go to. That was all he hunted with and has taken just about everything in Colorado with it. I still use his rifles as well as my own newly acquired Savage 110 Hunter in 270. Right now I have a sub MOA load with Hybrid V 100 but have used 4831, 4350, 3031 and several others. Problem I am having is that the V100 is not on the shelves and I contacted them to see if it was discontinued. I was told that they have put it on the back burner to focus on other more in demand powders.

Just because there is a max doesn't mean that it will be the best in your rifle. I have found some loads work better on the lower end than the higher.
 

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