Velvet exploding bullets?

[Kevin G]

In an early 80s publication about handguns I came across a small article about Velet exploding bullets.
Does anyone have actual experience or firsthand knowledge about them?
Thanks, Kevin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DWalt]

It is Velet, not Velvet. Have seen some long ago and read about them. I may even have a few 9mm rounds in my collection. There is nothing new with the idea of exploding bullets. There was some British guy named Jacob who was experimenting with them in India in the mid 19th Century. The idea is simple. Drill a hole in the bullet, fill it with some explosive or even black powder, and put some type of primer on top that fires on impact. Remember when Reagan was shot by John Hinkley who used .22 “Devastator” explosive bullet ammunition. I don’t believe any of those bullets exploded. Generally, the purpose is increased lethality but the fact is that they do not deliver performance as advertised. https://americansocietyofarmscollect...rlson-v120.pdf

[2152hq]

When we were very young and always trying stupid things, we woud drill the noseof 58cal Minie bullets just deep enough to contain a small amt of BP.
Then a .22rf primed case, bullet pulled from a live round (usually a 22Short when we could get them) was pushed into the hole base up so it was a tight fit .

CAREFULLY loaded with a hollow nose ramrod. The bullet would explode with quite a cloud of smoke and a bang if it hit a suitably hard object/surface.
Usually a plywood target backer would suffice and sometimes dense enough backstop dirt would do it.
Recovered bullets would have the nose shredded open as expected. They were already weakened by the drilling process.

Kids,,always have to blow things up...

[stansdds]

Originally Posted by 2152hq

Kids,,always have to blow things up...

Yep, and we will not discuss the indiscretions of my youth.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by 2152hq

Kids,,always have to blow things up...

I will second that.


Will not disclose any details but it sure was a lot of stuff!

[nutsforsmiths]

I have a bunch of Velet in 32 ACP. I've shot some of it and it didn't explode or sound any different then standard ammo.

[Ivan the Butcher]

My B-I-L's kid brother took 12-gauge HP slugs, drilled a 1/4" dia. hole in the HP just deep enough for a "Hilty Gun" nail driver blank to seat with the 22 rim against the lead slug. The "Dead Dog" test (also conducted on roadkill dear) was at 5 or 10 feet to fire the slug into the carcass. The resulting wound was like a hemisphere 6 to 8 inches in diameter. The consensus was while it would be lethal to the animal, if it was trying to eat you, you most likely would get hurt to some degree. Not near as effective as a normal rifle slug. Project dropped!

Ivan

[Alpo]

I don't know if these are the same thing. But I had a box of these. $12, which was a lot of money in 1981. Little block a foam rubber holding 12 rounds. I had 45 ACP. Was out shooting watermelons one day. Hardball just drilled a hole through it. Winchester Silvertips cracked the melon into two pieces. But that exploder just put a pink mist in the air. Watermelon scattered everywhere. Very cool. Illegal in Florida now.

[Alpo]

The bullets Hinckley used on Reagan - I think the brand name was Devastator - were made by the same company that made the Exploders.

[BC38]

I remember reading about exploding bullets in the book Day of the Jackal.
The Jackal drilled his rifle bullets and added a drop of fulminated mercury - then sealed them with a drop of molten lead.
First time I ever heard of anything like that.
I always wondered how an impact-sensitive explosive could handle the violent acceleration of the bullet being fired without exploding in the barrel of the gun.
I never tried it but thought it sounded somewhat feasible - and pretty cool.

[Mike, SC Hunter]

Originally Posted by Kevin G

In an early 80s publication about handguns I came across a small article about Velet exploding bullets.
Does anyone have actual experience or firsthand knowledge about them?
Thanks, Kevin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have a box of 20 in my shop........357 mag.....Was given to me........Been sitting on my shelf a long time.

[Mike, SC Hunter]

Originally Posted by stansdds

Yep, and we will not discuss the indiscretions of my youth.

Me either....We had dynamite and blasting caps.......Today's tannerite doesn't even come close.......Course there was no such thing as tannerite in the mid 60's.

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by Alpo

The bullets Hinckley used on Reagan - I think the brand name was Devastator - were made by the same company that made the Exploders.

You are correct.

[SnidelyWhiplash]

There were tests made of exploding bullets with handguns designed for them by the Air Marshal’s Service back in the ‘70s or ‘80s. The thought was the rounds wouldn’t pierce or exit an airplane’s fuselage. They were never adopted as there were too many technical issues to solve.

Colt made a number of Trooper Mark III revolvers with modified cylinders for the rounds. I don’t know how few were made or survived…but whenever one shows up on the market it goes for big bucks.

[DWalt]

This is the strange Colt pilot revolver. I remember it was designed to shoot a bullet made out of chalk, Turns out itt was Plaster of Paris. One of the strangest revolvers ever made, right up there with the Tround. I have a few stories about that I won’t go into. Colt’s Special Revolver for Airline Pilots - Forgotten Weapons

[venomballistics]

Originally Posted by BC38

I remember reading about exploding bullets in the book Day of the Jackal.
The Jackal drilled his rifle bullets and added a drop of fulminated mercury - then sealed them with a drop of molten lead.
First time I ever heard of anything like that.
I always wondered how an impact-sensitive explosive could handle the violent acceleration of the bullet being fired without exploding in the barrel of the gun.
I never tried it but thought it sounded somewhat feasible - and pretty cool.

Artillery shells do it every day

[BC38]

Originally Posted by venomballistics

Artillery shells do it every day

Good point.

[venomballistics]

Originally Posted by BC38

Good point.

Yeah, though a noteworthy underlying issue is effectiveness in the scale of small arms.
There's just better things to put in the cavity of a bullet than boom sauce

[rosewood]

Originally Posted by Mike, SC Hunter

......Course there was no such thing as tannerite in the mid 60's.

That is cause you could get Dynamite!

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by venomballistics

Yeah, though a noteworthy underlying issue is effectiveness in the scale of small arms.
There's just better things to put in the cavity of a bullet than boom sauce

I think I remember you putting hot pepper or something in HP bullets??

[BC38]

Originally Posted by venomballistics

Yeah, though a noteworthy underlying issue is effectiveness in the scale of small arms.
There's just better things to put in the cavity of a bullet than boom sauce

I'm not that familiar with how artillery shells are constructed.
But don't they have a trigger of some type in the tip, and a more stable explosive like C4 or something that requires a trigger mechanism? More like smokeless powder that requires a primer to set it off?

[venomballistics]

Originally Posted by BC38

I'm not that familiar with how artillery shells are constructed.
But don't they have a trigger of some type in the tip, and a more stable explosive like C4 or something that requires a trigger mechanism? More like smokeless powder that requires a primer to set it off?

it varies ... air burst or direct burst determines the detonator ... I believe the core charge is cast TNT

[venomballistics]

Originally Posted by Rule3

I think I remember you putting hot pepper or something in HP bullets??

among other things .... concentrated capsaicin most definitely modified behavior, but not in many useful ways.
Kids ...... just don't

[BC38]

Originally Posted by venomballistics

it varies ... air burst or direct burst determines the detonator ... I believe the core charge is cast TNT

Well, from what little I know of them TNT is a lot more stable than fulminated mercury. If it is a cast solid I would expect that would make it even more stable.

[DWalt]

The real issue is not the main explosive filler type in an artillery shell. And there are many of those. Rather it is the fuse mechanism which must be designed to operate under the extreme acceleration of firing without detonating.

[Alpo]

It's been a long time since I read Jackel, but I don't believe it was fulminate of Mercury. I think it was just the liquid metal. You have a little drop of Mercury, which is very heavy, inside the cavity. You fire the gun the bullet goes forward, and Newton's law of motion makes the Mercury go to the back of the cavity, where it stays as long as the bullet is going forward. When the bullet hits something, and stops going forward, Newton's law of motion makes the Mercury go charging forward where it blows the whole front of the bullet apart.



I'm pretty sure that's how the exploding bullets in Jackal worked.

[BC38]

Originally Posted by DWalt

The real issue is not the main explosive filler type in an artillery shell. And there are many of those. Rather it is the fuse mechanism which must be designed to operate under the extreme acceleration of firing without detonating.

Exactly. My original point (referencing the book The Day of the Jackal) was that fulminated mercury ISN'T designed or formulated to withstand the extreme acceleration of a fired bullet.

If the rapid deceleration of impact could set it off, it seems to me that the rapid acceleration of being fired poses a pretty significant risk setting it off.

That's why, although I thought it sounded like a cool idea, I never even considered trying it myself.

[BC38]

Originally Posted by Alpo

It's been a long time since I read Jackel, but I don't believe it was fulminate of Mercury. I think it was just the liquid metal. You have a little drop of Mercury, which is very heavy, inside the cavity. You fire the gun the bullet goes forward, and Newton's law of motion makes the Mercury go to the back of the cavity, where it stays as long as the bullet is going forward. When the bullet hits something, and stops going forward, Newton's law of motion makes the Mercury go charging forward where it blows the whole front of the bullet apart.

I'm pretty sure that's how the exploding bullets in Jackal worked.

You may be right about that. It's been around 50 years since I read The Day of the Jackal, so my memory about the details of the Jackal's "exploding bullets" may be wrong. Maybe my "research" on the feasibility of the mercury bullets lead me to learning about fulminated mercury. Its been a LONG time so the details are a bit fuzzy.

But my point is still that logic would dictate that anything unstable enough to make a bullet actually explode on impact would also stand a good chance of being too unstable to withstand the equally violent forces of an accelerating bullet.

That seems like simple physics to me. Certainly not something I have ever been willing to put to the test.

FWIW, I also have to wonder if even something as semi-inert as plain old mercury slamming into the rear of the bullet cavity could possibly exert enough force to blow out the back of the bullet, cause the bullet to fragment, or maybe even cause the bullet diameter to balloon to the point that it would stick in the barrel.

Just my random thoughts...

[DWalt]

One must be aware that the “Mercury Bullet” was a purely fictional creation of Frederick Forsyth. I think in the movie they were .22 LR. I can’t believe that anyone was ever shot by one, although I suspect that many may have been inspired by the book or the movie to attempt making one. Forsyth may have read about Jacob’s explosive bullets which did use a copper tube of Mercury Fulminate as an impact sensitive initiator (which I previously mentioned) and it gave him the idea for Mercury assassination bullets.

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by rosewood

That is cause you could get Dynamite!

Back when I was a kid, the local hardware store would sell it to anyone. Local farmers used it for stump blasting and other odd jobs. I knew one guy who dynamited bedrock for house basements. Sandstone was very close to the surface where I lived. He would drill holes, put in a half stick of dynamite, and light the fuse.That would break up the rock and he would pull out the pieces with a tractor. I used to watch him.

[BC38]

Originally Posted by DWalt

Back when I was a kid, the local hardware store would sell it to anyone. Local farmers used it for stump blasting and other odd jobs. I knew one guy who dynamited bedrock for house basements. Sandstone was very close to the surface where I lived. He would drill holes, put in a half stick of dynamite, and light the fuse.That would break up the rock and he would pull out the pieces with a tractor. I used to watch him.

Ahh, the good old days - before the over-reach of the BATFE...

[FoundFather]

Originally Posted by venomballistics

Yeah, though a noteworthy underlying issue is effectiveness in the scale of small arms.
There's just better things to put in the cavity of a bullet than boom sauce

St. Petersburg Declaration Saint Petersburg Declaration of 1868 - Wikipedia
kind of slowed their development by militaries. If not for it, we might have highly effective exploding bullets by now since there were already working examples in 1868. If the militaries weren't into them, it kind of left them without a market. Law enforcement is not likely to blow up their citizens. That kind of leaves kids of all ages, like us.....

[venomballistics]

Originally Posted by FoundFather

St. Petersburg Declaration Saint Petersburg Declaration of 1868 - Wikipedia
kind of slowed their development by militaries. If not for it, we might have highly effective exploding bullets by now since there were already working examples in 1868. If the militaries weren't into them, it kind of left them without a market. Law enforcement is not likely to blow up their citizens. That kind of leaves kids of all ages, like us.....

In 1868, the size of the average service projectile was a fair bit larger. Consider our 45-70 for example.
That pill can harbor a useful quantity of malice