I used to use 2400 in my cast bullet loads for the '06. But, all Alliant powders are unobtainable in my area. Anyone know of an alternative?

I too settled on 2400 years ago, but I also played with IMR 4227 and as I recall it did well.

Like you, when my current supply of 2400 dries up I will have to find an alternative.

Lots of alternatives and you may find one or more that actually provides better accuracy than #2400. In no particular order, I'd try 5744, IMR-4198, Reloder 7, and H4895. Plenty of .30-06 cast bullet data for all these powders. I've never used H4198 but would guess it would be very similar to the IMR version.

My favorite cast bullet load for my 30-06 has been the Lyman #311284 pushed by SR 4759, but that's out of production (I laid in a goodly supply a long time ago).
IMR 4064 and 2400 worked almost as well, but I settled on the SR 4759. I always meant to try IMR 3031, just never got "around to it!"

WYT-P
Skyhunter

I too used SR4759 and Lyman 311284 combination, in both .30-06 and 30-40 Krag. SR4759 has always given me good results with cast bullets in rifle cartridges from .30-30 through .375 H&H. It is a moderately bulky powder and fillers are not needed. Alas, Hogdon saw fit to discontinue it.

I found a 12 pound keg of 700x at a garage sale and worked up cast loads with that.

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RM Vivas
SWCA#1482L, SWHF#837

I used Herco for lower velocity loads, around 1600 FPS, and had decent results with Win 748 up to a bit over 2200 FPS.

I did not do extensive testing but did shoot my 748 loads at 300 yards, just to see what they would do. I was pleasantly surprised. I was looking for a cheap powder and at that time bulk 748 was what I could get that did the job with less expense than others. The Herco I received as a gift and it worked very well at 1600 FPS or so, at 100 yards.

I used a standard Remington 700 BDL hunting rifle and scope. The bullet was a Lyman flat-nose gas-check design that weighed around 180 grains. I don’t recall the number. It worked well in both of my .308 and .30/06 rifles. The .308 was a Winchester post-64 Model 70 Lightweight.

I've used the #311284 in the .30-06, but found Lyman's #314299 to be a more accurate bullet in the popular .30 caliber rifle cartridges including the .308, .30-40, and .30-06.

I've used 4227 and 3031
4227 will likely be your best bet.
For uncharted waters .. CFE blk might be worth a workup

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it just needs more voltage

After using Unique for 40 years for cast bullets in rifles, 231/HP-38 is now my favorite (not "go-to") powder for cast bullets in .308 Winchester and 30-06 (works fine in 6.5, 7, 7.65, and 8mm Mauser, and 7.62x54r as well). Use gas checked cast bullets weighing from about 140 to about 180 grains.

Use 231/HP-38 approximately grain-for-grain as with Unique.

Start with 8 grains, but 10 should put you where you want to be. You can probably bring it up to 12 or more, but 10 is enough for me. This is with any of the above mentioned cartridges and bullet weights.

I'm all done with Bullseye, Unique, and 2400, even if they bring them back. I won't be needing any of them for handguns either, once my existing supply is exhausted.

edit to add: Oh, and I was born and raised in the USA, so I call them bullets, not "boolets", but I am glad Mexican and French speakers feel free to join in on the forum also. Welcome to the USA!

I'm still working through a 6 pound jug of military, pull-down SR 4759. Same boolit. So far I've only lubed them. Haven't powder coated any, but that is coming soon.

IMR 4198 is a great choice. IMR 4895 can be reduced 30%. I've used it for all kinds of loads. If H4895 has the same characteristics that would be GREAT! I'll have to look back in my log because it's been decades, but it seems I found some data even using Unique getting down to around 1500 fps. If your bullets are coated or gas-checked you can push them harder.

I love to experiment with reduced loads. I can make my 30-06 shoot like a .22. People say, "Why don't you just get a .22?" I have a .22 rifle but you can't experiment with loads like you can a centerfire.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Same here. Here's my latest. A 30 caliber wadcutter in the 30-30 with a light charge of Bullseye.
I'm going to shoot it out of my Thompson Contender rifle barrel with 24X scope.
Going to see how far I can accurately lob that chunk of lead downrange.
I'm thinking a heavy boolit at low velocity would be more effective than a light one. That's where a noiseless big bore round would be better than a 22 CB. Even at short range, a heavy projectile would be more effective than a lighter one at the same velocity.

Attached Images

WC3030.jpg (66.3 KB, 27 views)

I've done this as well.
Most 22's are mediocrity defined. While these centerfires are often exquisite platforms.
I'd rather grab one of these out of the rack and keep it in service.
What I've found to be the greatest factor in terminal performance in these loads has been bullet shape.
Flat points are a great default choice.
Weight only factors in if it doesn't over penetrate.
A through and though wound looks the same wether it's made by a 100 grain or a 200 grain where velocities are equal.
It is easier to achieve a consistent load with a heavier bullet as it gives us more pressure and a better burn.
I pretty much stick to a 150 grain in these loads though the practical application was taken over by a 9mm PCC

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it just needs more voltage

What Powder(s) do you have or are available to you .
My Pet cast bullet 30-06 load involves 13.0 grs. Red Dot and a 170 gr. FN-GC cast lead bullet ... You got Red Dot ?

There are others to choose from ... but the question is ...
what can you put your hands on !

I hate these stinking Shortages !

Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

My usual cast bullet load in .30-06 uses the Lee C309-170F, gas checked, 30 grains of H335. I have substituted BL-C2 with identical performance. Bullet alloy is 50% wheel weights, 50% linotype metal, BHN about 17-18

This is a close approximation of factory .30-30 loads, estimated 2100-2200FPS. Very accurate at 100 yards from a rest. Deadly on Colorado mule deer (usually 150-250 lbs live weight) out to 150 yards.

I have used the same bullets in .30-30, .300 Savage, .308 Win, .30-40 Krag with comparable results. Annual reloading routine includes a couple hundred in .30-30 to keep the sons and grandkids supplied. I don't think they ever learned that .30-30 ammo can be bought in stores, they just box up all the empties to send to old Grampa.

In .30-06 I have gone up to 36 grains of H-335 for about 2400-2500FPS. Very close to factory 180-grain ammo velocities.

Bore cleaning requires only a few passes with a bronze bore brush, solvent patch, then a few dry patches.

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Life of the party until 8:00PM

That wadcutter with 2.5 gr of BE is a joy to shoot out of a 14" TC in 30-30.

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Front sight and squeeze

I developed my loads with almost no usable data.
Mine was blue dot with a magnum primer.
Starting at 8 grains, I'd adjust to achieve 1050 FPS for a subsonic load. I'd usually achieve single digit extreme spreads out of these loads.
The dots are going to be sorely missed. Alliant makes some of our most flexible powders. but their hear today, gone tomorrow availability has me a little gunshy

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it just needs more voltage

I've never got acceptable (to me) accuracy with 22 CB's. I've had real good results shooting lubed, round balls out of a Contender 44 Mag, but this thread is about 30-06's.

I am down to my last bottle of 4227 & 4759 for my light rifle loads.

In the 30-06 I will be switching over to 4895, when the well runs dry,
for light target load at 30-40 Krag speeds , or lower.

I have been loading 30-06 with Lee 155 gr cast boolits for 30 years. Have used IMR-3031 exclusively. With that getting harder to find, I bought a couple other IMR varieties and have found loads for some of my other rifle cartridges. But, in the absence of data I decided to stick with 3031 for the '06.

I've always used Red Dot w/lead bullets (and ssometimes jacketed too) in 30-06 as well as 30-40, 8x57, etc.

I've got quite a lot, but also have Herco which I didn't know until now was usable for reduced load in 30-06. An 8#(?) sits un opened.
Plus some Blue-Dot that I wondered what to use in as well.

I do have 4759 as well,,I guess I have more than I really need. But the reduced load CF rifle is nice to shoot.

I have BE-86, Titegroup and IMR4064 on hand.. I can get most Hodgon powders locally. It's my longstanding Alliant powders that haven't been available since pre-COVID days.

,,,, and the way it's going you are better off just making the switch to Hodgdon's many offerings, Accurate, Ramshot, Vihta Vuori or any other manufacturer that doesn't leave consumers out in the cold.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I have no data / no experience with those three powders in 30-06 cast bullet loads .My best advice is see if you can locate some:

AA 5744 (Accurate Arms)
RX-7
imr 3031

I see where Accurate Arms makes a AA-2400 and wonder if this is a replacement for our old beloved 2400 ... check it out .

The 3 powders I have listed I do have experience with and data is shown in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition .
All three have worked well in cast bullet 30-06 loads .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

I have read this thread with great interest as I love the 30-06 cartridge. I have loaded many rifle calibers, yet I have a long running unanswered question which is case fill. I read about these loads like "33 grains of H335" and wonder about the free space in the case. without any type of fill to keep the powder against the base, what prevents detonation if the powder lays horizontally?

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SWCA #3929, SWHF #1010

Things like pillow batting are used as fillers.
Robot or human?

Cut a 1/2" x 1/2" piece and pull/stretch it out and then insert it into the case on top of the powder. Then seat the bullet.

There will not be "detonation" with small charges of faster burning powder. Supposedly, there has been "detonation" with small charges of very slow burning powder, but I am not aware of this ever being duplicated in a laboratory, so I think it is an old wives tale.

NEVER use any filler in any bottle necked cartridge (I wouldn't do it in any cartridge). Doing so is unneeded and dangerous. Fast burning powder will ignite just fine regardless of its position in the case, but some people like to point the muzzle to the vertical position before taking final aim and firing. I never noticed any appreciable difference doing so.

Any pistol powder will work.

I'd use reddot data for the titegroup (10gr to 14gr)
unique data for the be-86 (10gr to 15gr)
4064 (29gr to 44gr)

Used to cast/shoot a lot of lead in the 30-36's. I now shoot lead/cast in a 308w.

Had bought 1# of ww super handicap at a gunshow years ago. It was cheap, didn't need it & really had no use for it. Ended up burning it up with cast bullets in a 308w making plinking/blammo ammo loads.
10shot groups @ 50yds.

You are absolutely correct about "you don't need fillers with fast burning (pistol) powders".

Slower burning powders like the H335 he asked about can benefit from having +/- 100% case fill by using fillers.

Playing around with H335 in a 308w and a 160gr cast bullet. Doing ladder tests with fillers in all cases.


Used filler in these 4064 loads.


Used filler in these rl-19 loads


That target pictured above (rl-19) is a perfect example of what happens when a cast bullet is driven too hard/fast and nose slumping occurs. The left target is a sp and the right target is a hp of the same bullet cast in a 2 cavity cramer mold. 1 cavity is sp, the other cavity is a hp version of the same bullet. The cramer bullets used in that rl-19 target

Me too. My loads run about 1600 fps, and my current boolit is a 155 grain, although I used to shoot slugs in the 190 gr range. I just love shooting my 03 and 03A3 with these loads, in addition to my deer rifle 06s.

In fact, our NRA Highpower League shoots the reduced 100 yd course on reduced targets and for years I competed with my .30-06 cast loads in my 03A3 match gun. I was very competitive. Nowadays I do the same thing with a .223 Howa I set up as a match gun, and I'm shooting cast out of that too.

Just off the top of my head, Red Dot and 700X have worked the best for me in 30-30 and 30-06.
For heavier cast loads SR4759 has worked best, but I had the luck to buy a jug of it a while back. Don't know what I'll use if that gets used up.

I had very good luck with slow powders, WC 870 and 872, both pull down 50 BMG powders. A case full with a Saeco 315 will do wonders.

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Front sight and squeeze

Do you think is it possible to use hard cast bullets in a modern rifle like 30 caliber or 6.5mm with no gas cheks and no powder coating?

... is pronounced "Boo-Lay".

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Use them absolutely. Use for accuracy and cleanliness? Maybe if powder coated and velocities are kept under 1600 fps. Some are shooting bare bottomed with powder coating to higher but they sure aren't "hard cast".
This would involve a special alloy that is a lot softer.

There is no definition for hard cast. It generally means to a seller " I use a very hard, easy to cast allow that reduces dings if bullets happen to hit each other during packaging and shipping". Dotto for hard lubes.

30 caliber would be easier than 6.5 due to the twist rates of most of the 6.5's.

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Front sight and squeeze

...while lifting both pinky fingers, I might add.

You need some kind of lubricant.

I've gotten very good luck with boolits (there, I said it) in the 30-06 and the similar 7.5x55. Red Dot was my go-to until I ran out.

I got some really good groups using it, even in rack-stock 03A3's-



I wouldn't hesitate to try something like 700-X as it's very similar to Red Dot.

Years ago I bought an 8 lb. jug of AA#7 simply because it at $85 it was too cheap to pass up. When I ran out of Red Dot, on a whim I tried AA#7 and found it worked great. 14.0-14.5 gr. yielded around 1450 fps with most bullets and satisfactory accuracy-