This is kind of a re-post as I had asked before but forgot to put 40 SW.

Anyway, I am trying to find a start load using HP38/W-231 for 180 gr LFN in 40 SW.

I have Lyman, Lee and Speer and nothing listed. I called Hodgdon and they have no lead data.

Lyman has data for a 175gr bullet using W 231 of 4.3-5.8.

Can I just use this?

There is lots of data for 180 FMJ loads. Can I use the start load of those less 10% to compensate for lead??

Until I get my Chrony problems worked out, I have no idea what these loads are generating as to FPS.

Thanks

The following loads are from the W-W 14th Edition Reloading manual:
40 S&W
170 gr. Lead
4.0 gr. W-231 = 850 fps = 22800 psi
5.2 gr. W-231 = 1030 fps = 33200 psi
200gr. Lead
3.0 gr. W-231 = 700 fps = 21100 psi
4.0 gr. W-231 = 850 fps = 33200 psi
I have only shot very mild loads of 155 to 180 gr. lead bullets in my 40 S&W revolvers using 3.4 to 3.6 gr. WST for ca 725 to 775 fps.
Hope this helps.

Go HERE: IPSC Loads - Loads for USPSA/IPSC Practical Shooting Competitions

THEN go to the Winchester site for 231 data (I prefer WST) and/or the Brian Enos site.

The data is out there.

Yes, thank you. I am loading for semi auto but this gives me a average to go by.

Thanks for the IPSC info.

Winchester AKA Hodgdon does not have load data for lead bullets in 40 SW using W231 or HP 38 on their website. Is there another site??

If you want to load lead bullets with 231, this is the manual you need: ( or better yet an older edition)

Lyman "Reloading Handbook: 49th Edition" Reloading Manual Softcover
Product #: 217655 | Manufacturer #: 9816049
Status: Available
Should Ship Next Business Day
Quantity
Our Price: $19.99



MidwayUSA - Lyman "Reloading Handbook: 49th Edition" Reloading Manual Softcover

A slight difference in weight or shape is OK as long as you work up the load.
Personally, I don't try to make major power in .40 S&W lead loads, but they are delightful for minor power loads, like shooting .40 S&W in Production.

Try here: 40 S&W Load Data - Handloads.Com

And try Google.........

OKFC,
I have the Lyman 49th. Thanks

Amici,
Believe it or not, I actually have Google. Is that the thing you use to look up information? I had checked many sources and the sites you mentioned before posting my question which is why I inquired here. There is not a whole lot of "data out there" on 180gr lead and HP 38.
If you think it's a bother to help someone, than why reply at all?? Try losing the attitude.

OCD1,
Based on the WW 14th ed manual the Lyman loads you initially suggested seem a bit too high for my comfort. The only pressure tested data I have found for lead bullets in the 40 S&W have been in the WW 14th ed manual and the Alliant 2005 reloaders guide. The ww 14th give starting and maximum loads whereas the Alliant 2005 only provides maximum loads.

You could use the starting data for the 175gr & work up. You could use 180gr jacketed starting data & work up. You would be fine running 180grLTC o/ 5gr all day.

__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Thanks.
I did load some up with 4.5 grs and went out to test them but my Chrony was acting up so I could not tell what the velocity was. They felt OK and cycled the gun fine but I really want to know what they are running at.

Really? If so, it does not appear that you bothered to use it.

You just said you HAVE it - nice contradiction.

I gave you TWO specific sites AND a source for more. Try losing YOUR attitude - YOU'RE the one asking for favors.

Well if posting on this forum is "asking for favors" than thank you kindly for your wealth of information. I guess I owe you for those two links. Make that one as the the Winchester site does not have any W-231 info as I already mentioned in my initial post.Contrary to what you say, the data is not out there perhaps only "the truth is out there".

I have been using this combination in my P229 for a long time and it shoots so well in that gun that I never bothered to try anything else. I cannot tell you where the data came from, but the load has been in my notebook for at least 9-years, so the original listing may be out of print by now. Since 40 S&W is kind of a high-pressure item, I always use Winchester cases and primers, and always watch C.O.L. carefully, trying to be as consistent as possible.

In any case, I have shot a lot of them and always been happy. Naturally, work-up/use-at-your-risk cautions always apply. Good luck.

EDIT: Your question about substituting FMJ data - I don't think there is a good way to do that. Take the small extra trouble to find lead data. A quick glance at your manuals will show considerable pressure differences when using the same charges with lead/FMJ projectiles. Since 40 S&W is not an inconsiderable round in the pressure department, attention to detail may be the better part of good judgment.

Thank you for the info. I am also shooting a Sig 229 and 239. I just got a XD 40 sub compact which is definitely a "stouter" recoil than the Sigs. I am trying to find the lightest target load to practice with the XD.
My dilemma is trying to use the powder which I have the most of HP-38. But out of my 4 manuals and the web there is not much for lead.

Also a good reason to use SR primers. I've been doing that for over half a decade now. Aside from simplifying inventory, it provides a slight increase in the safety factor.

As always when changing a component, start low and work up in small increments.

Oh - here's a link to an article in which a 170-grain SWC bullet was loaded with 231:

.40 S&W Lite Recoil Loads

Once again, Google is your friend.

Oregon Trail, or Laser Cast, (makers of cast lead bullets only) manual has no data for HP 38 or 231 for 180 gr. bullets, but they do for 170.

4.5 HP 38 or 4.6 231 gives you about 960fps with a 170 grain bullet.

If you're using a Glock or other unsupported chamber than these are also the maximum.

For 180 gr. bullets they use things like Unique, Red Dot, HS 6 and AA 5, all
slower powders, which makes me think that they consider your powders too fast for 180 grain bullets.

There is also one for 180 gr lead.
180-gr. Laser Cast
OAL - 1.135 ins. 3.5 WW 231
3.0 Bullseye
4.0 Power Pistol
2.9 TiteGroup 737
757
761
724 132.7
136.3
137.0
130.3



Thank you. Bookmarked!

The chart did not cut/paste very well.

OCD,
There is another loading manual you may want to invest in. It is the Lyman, Third Edition Pistol & Revolver Handbook, IBM: 9816500, UPC: 0 1151696500 4.

It has this warning in the opening information for this caliber too:
There is no data for a 180gr lead bullet but there are over 10 different powder combinations for two different 175gr lead bullets. You can extrapolate data to a point. Look at the data in your #49. Does it list data for the #401043 and #401638 175gr bullets? If so, look at your bullets. Do they have one or two lube grooves? Is the nose one that rides in the bore?

As I look at the data further, there is only 7fps difference between the two and the powder weights are exactly the same. Having cast for a while now, I can tell you this, it is within all likelihood that not all of the bullets they cast from those two molds were EXACTLY 175gr. In fact, I'm going out on a limb here, there is no way that ALL of them were that weight. Close, yes, exact, no.

Use the data for the bullet that most closely resembles yours and start at the bottom of the data for that bullet. Work up in .1gr or .2gr increments and check with a chronograph.

Do not exceed their data. In my experience, it will be fine.

Hope this helps!

Understand. You've got the right powder. HP38 and 231 in current production being interchangeable, for all practical purposes, you might experiment with the starting load and even work backwards, since likely the only things that matter to you may be safe function of the gun and POA/POI convergence.

Recoil of the 5.0 grain load never was bothersome to me so I did not investigate further.

In any case, I believe you will find HP38/231 to be excellent with the lead bullets in your SIGs. Can't speak on XDs. In my M&P40, I switch to HS-6 or Longshot as I cannot maintain POA/POI convergence with the HP38/231 load, for some reason.

Naturally, it seems the HS-6 and Longshot loads do slam the gun (and shooter ) around a bit more, but accuracy still has been quite acceptable out to 25-yards. Have not shot the gun or ammo further.

Smith,

I actually have two different bullets, both listed at 180grs. They both have one groove and to the eye appear identical. But:
The Missouri IDP #5 TCFP is .401 dia and weighs in at 180grs

The Magnus #101 TCBB is also .401 dia but actually weighs 185 grs.

Both bullets candid photos are online at there respective sites.

No, I do not have any unsupported chamber 40 cal (Glock or High Power) I sold my Glock 40 as I did not want to by another barrel.

So actually with the Magnus bullet weight, I should be using less than the 175 gr data yes???

Thanks as always for you input.

The loads I did try of 4.5 grs with the Magnus 101 bullets which actually weigh 185gr were not excessive. Just felt different as the XD is plastic and the Sigs alloy. I did not shoot any of this batch through the Sig.
I ran 100 rounds through the sub compact XD is a short period of time as I was just checking it out. It's not a range gun but is very accurate for a 3" barrel. I have the same gun in 9mm which is a pleasure to shoot.

Appreciate the input.

Those bullets are the same. Data for the 175gr will be fine to use for extrapolating data. DO NOT GO BELOW THEIR LISTED OAL, PERIOD!

What you can do in this situation is use the bottom of the 175gr data for starters. As noted above, to keep the pressure in a reasonable area do not reduce the OAL beneath their suggestion. In fact, if they will chamber @ .010" longer, that is what I would do.

The difference in weight is most likely attributed to alloy composition. Softer = heavier, harder = lighter. Remember that for when you start to cast!

At any rate and since your chronograph is on the blink, do not go above their maximum listed for those bullets. In fact, if the minimum load will cycle your firearm @ + .010" on the OAL, that is the load I would use.

FWIW

I used 170 and 175 grain SWC's when I started loading .40, but I used Red Dot.

I now use 180 grain TC over WST.

According to Lyman 49th, Power Pistol runs (in a one groove 180 gr FPBB lead bullet) 5.8 to 6.5 gr. The slightly different shaped, but same weight bullet runs from 5.9 to 6.6 gr of Power Pistol.

I loaded up several batches, at 5.8, 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, and 6.4 gr. I seated to 1.125". They gauge ok. Hopefully I can get out to the range soon and pass them through my 4006TSW. I also have a little Aguila 180 gr and Wolf 180 gr FMJ, so I will chronograph them all and try to have a fun day.

I weighed the 6.4 charge very carefully prior to loading, and my 10 round combined weight was never above 64.1, a couple times on the dot at 6.4, so I'm pretty sure there aren't any that snuck through which are any higher. I feel a little unsure getting close to the max charge, but I do have a chronograph, the 4006TSW is a stout pistol, and I know that all my OAL's are fine, certainly nowhere near the 1.100" minimum OAL which the Lyman manual states. So I think I should be fine.

If I save the hottest for last, and if my chrony data matches up to what the reloading manual says, I should be safe, no? I dropped some rounds into my barrel, and it sure looks to me like the 4006TSW is a fully supported chamber.

I will try and report back with data soon!