Need help with load data for 40 SW, using lead bullets.

Rule3

Rule3

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This is kind of a re-post as I had asked before but forgot to put 40 SW.

Anyway, I am trying to find a start load using HP38/W-231 for 180 gr LFN in 40 SW.

I have Lyman, Lee and Speer and nothing listed. I called Hodgdon and they have no lead data.

Lyman has data for a 175gr bullet using W 231 of 4.3-5.8.

Can I just use this?

There is lots of data for 180 FMJ loads. Can I use the start load of those less 10% to compensate for lead??

Until I get my Chrony problems worked out, I have no idea what these loads are generating as to FPS.

Thanks
 
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The following loads are from the W-W 14th Edition Reloading manual:
40 S&W
170 gr. Lead
4.0 gr. W-231 = 850 fps = 22800 psi
5.2 gr. W-231 = 1030 fps = 33200 psi
200gr. Lead
3.0 gr. W-231 = 700 fps = 21100 psi
4.0 gr. W-231 = 850 fps = 33200 psi
I have only shot very mild loads of 155 to 180 gr. lead bullets in my 40 S&W revolvers using 3.4 to 3.6 gr. WST for ca 725 to 775 fps.
Hope this helps.
 
TSQUARED said:
The following loads are from the W-W 14th Edition Reloading manual:
40 S&W
170 gr. Lead
4.0 gr. W-231 = 850 fps = 22800 psi
5.2 gr. W-231 = 1030 fps = 33200 psi
200gr. Lead
3.0 gr. W-231 = 700 fps = 21100 psi
4.0 gr. W-231 = 850 fps = 33200 psi
I have only shot very mild loads of 155 to 180 gr. lead bullets in my 40 S&W revolvers using 3.4 to 3.6 gr. WST for ca 725 to 775 fps.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Yes, thank you. I am loading for semi auto but this gives me a average to go by.
 
OCD1 said:
Thanks for the IPSC info.

Winchester AKA Hodgdon does not have load data for lead bullets in 40 SW using W231 or HP 38 on their website. Is there another site??
Click to expand...

If you want to load lead bullets with 231, this is the manual you need: ( or better yet an older edition)

Lyman "Reloading Handbook: 49th Edition" Reloading Manual Softcover
Product #: 217655 | Manufacturer #: 9816049
Status: Available
Should Ship Next Business Day
Quantity
Our Price: $19.99



MidwayUSA - Lyman "Reloading Handbook: 49th Edition" Reloading Manual Softcover

A slight difference in weight or shape is OK as long as you work up the load.
Personally, I don't try to make major power in .40 S&W lead loads, but they are delightful for minor power loads, like shooting .40 S&W in Production.
 
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OKFC,
I have the Lyman 49th. Thanks

Amici,
Believe it or not, I actually have Google. Is that the thing you use to look up information? I had checked many sources and the sites you mentioned before posting my question which is why I inquired here. There is not a whole lot of "data out there" on 180gr lead and HP 38.
If you think it's a bother to help someone, than why reply at all?? Try losing the attitude.
 
OCD1 said:
Yes, thank you. I am loading for semi auto but this gives me a average to go by.
Click to expand...
OCD1,
Based on the WW 14th ed manual the Lyman loads you initially suggested seem a bit too high for my comfort. The only pressure tested data I have found for lead bullets in the 40 S&W have been in the WW 14th ed manual and the Alliant 2005 reloaders guide. The ww 14th give starting and maximum loads whereas the Alliant 2005 only provides maximum loads.
 
OCD1 said:
Lyman has data for a 175gr bullet using W 231 of 4.3-5.8.

Can I just use this?

There is lots of data for 180 FMJ loads. Can I use the start load of those less 10% to compensate for lead??

Until I get my Chrony problems worked out, I have no idea what these loads are generating as to FPS.

Thanks
Click to expand...
You could use the starting data for the 175gr & work up. You could use 180gr jacketed starting data & work up. You would be fine running 180grLTC o/ 5gr all day.
 
fredj338 said:
You could use the starting data for the 175gr & work up. You could use 180gr jacketed starting data & work up. You would be fine running 180grLTC o/ 5gr all day.
Click to expand...

Thanks.
I did load some up with 4.5 grs and went out to test them but my Chrony was acting up so I could not tell what the velocity was. They felt OK and cycled the gun fine but I really want to know what they are running at.
 
OCD1 said:
Believe it or not, I actually have Google.
Click to expand...

Really? If so, it does not appear that you bothered to use it.

Is that the thing you use to look up information?
Click to expand...

You just said you HAVE it - nice contradiction.

If it's a bother to help someone, than why reply at all?? Try losing the attitude.
Click to expand...

I gave you TWO specific sites AND a source for more. Try losing YOUR attitude - YOU'RE the one asking for favors.
 
Amici said:
Really? If so, it does not appear that you bothered to use it.



You just said you HAVE it - nice contradiction.



I gave you TWO specific sites AND a source for more. Try losing YOUR attitude - YOU'RE the one asking for favors.
Click to expand...

Well if posting on this forum is "asking for favors" than thank you kindly for your wealth of information. I guess I owe you for those two links. Make that one as the the Winchester site does not have any W-231 info as I already mentioned in my initial post.Contrary to what you say, the data is not out there perhaps only "the truth is out there".
 
fredj338 said:
...You would be fine running 180grLTC o/ 5gr all day.
Click to expand...

I have been using this combination in my P229 for a long time and it shoots so well in that gun that I never bothered to try anything else. I cannot tell you where the data came from, but the load has been in my notebook for at least 9-years, so the original listing may be out of print by now. Since 40 S&W is kind of a high-pressure item, I always use Winchester cases and primers, and always watch C.O.L. carefully, trying to be as consistent as possible.

In any case, I have shot a lot of them and always been happy. Naturally, work-up/use-at-your-risk cautions always apply. Good luck.

EDIT: Your question about substituting FMJ data - I don't think there is a good way to do that. Take the small extra trouble to find lead data. A quick glance at your manuals will show considerable pressure differences when using the same charges with lead/FMJ projectiles. Since 40 S&W is not an inconsiderable round in the pressure department, attention to detail may be the better part of good judgment.
 
Last edited:
M29since14 said:
I have been using this combination in my P229 for a long time and it shoots so well in that gun that I never bothered to try anything else. I cannot tell you where the data came from, but the load has been in my notebook for at least 9-years, so the original listing may be out of print by now. Since 40 S&W is kind of a high-pressure item, I always use Winchester cases and primers, and always watch C.O.L. carefully, trying to be as consistent as possible.

In any case, I have shot a lot of them and always been happy. Naturally, work-up/use-at-your-risk cautions always apply. Good luck.

EDIT: Your question about substituting FMJ data - I don't think there is a good way to do that. Take the small extra trouble to find lead data. A quick glance at your manuals will show considerable pressure differences when using the same charges with lead/FMJ projectiles. Since 40 S&W is not an inconsiderable round in the pressure department, attention to detail may be the better part of good judgment.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the info. I am also shooting a Sig 229 and 239. I just got a XD 40 sub compact which is definitely a "stouter" recoil than the Sigs. I am trying to find the lightest target load to practice with the XD.
My dilemma is trying to use the powder which I have the most of HP-38. But out of my 4 manuals and the web there is not much for lead.
 
M29since14 said:
Since 40 S&W is kind of a high-pressure item, I always use Winchester cases and primers, and always watch C.O.L. carefully, trying to be as consistent as possible.... Since 40 S&W is not an inconsiderable round in the pressure department, attention to detail may be the better part of good judgment.
Click to expand...

Also a good reason to use SR primers. I've been doing that for over half a decade now. Aside from simplifying inventory, it provides a slight increase in the safety factor.

As always when changing a component, start low and work up in small increments.

Oh - here's a link to an article in which a 170-grain SWC bullet was loaded with 231:

.40 S&W Lite Recoil Loads

Once again, Google is your friend.
 
Oregon Trail, or Laser Cast, (makers of cast lead bullets only) manual has no data for HP 38 or 231 for 180 gr. bullets, but they do for 170.

4.5 HP 38 or 4.6 231 gives you about 960fps with a 170 grain bullet.

If you're using a Glock or other unsupported chamber than these are also the maximum.

For 180 gr. bullets they use things like Unique, Red Dot, HS 6 and AA 5, all
slower powders, which makes me think that they consider your powders too fast for 180 grain bullets.
 
Amici said:
Also a good reason to use SR primers. I've been doing that for over half a decade now. Aside from simplifying inventory, it provides a slight increase in the safety factor.

As always when changing a component, start low and work up in small increments.

Oh - here's a link to an article in which a 170-grain SWC bullet was loaded with 231:

.40 S&W Lite Recoil Loads

Once again, Google is your friend.
Click to expand...

:)

There is also one for 180 gr lead.
180-gr. Laser Cast
OAL - 1.135 ins. 3.5 WW 231
3.0 Bullseye
4.0 Power Pistol
2.9 TiteGroup 737
757
761
724 132.7
136.3
137.0
130.3



Thank you. Bookmarked!

The chart did not cut/paste very well.
 
Last edited:
Get's kind of old, don't it!

OCD,
There is another loading manual you may want to invest in. It is the Lyman, Third Edition Pistol & Revolver Handbook, IBM: 9816500, UPC: 0 1151696500 4.

It has this warning in the opening information for this caliber too:
Warning: Only use this data in handguns that fully support the cartridge in the chamber. If used in unsupported chambers, cases can rupture and cause harm to the shooter or bystanders.
Click to expand...

There is no data for a 180gr lead bullet but there are over 10 different powder combinations for two different 175gr lead bullets. You can extrapolate data to a point. Look at the data in your #49. Does it list data for the #401043 and #401638 175gr bullets? If so, look at your bullets. Do they have one or two lube grooves? Is the nose one that rides in the bore?

As I look at the data further, there is only 7fps difference between the two and the powder weights are exactly the same. Having cast for a while now, I can tell you this, it is within all likelihood that not all of the bullets they cast from those two molds were EXACTLY 175gr. In fact, I'm going out on a limb here, there is no way that ALL of them were that weight. Close, yes, exact, no.

Use the data for the bullet that most closely resembles yours and start at the bottom of the data for that bullet. Work up in .1gr or .2gr increments and check with a chronograph.

Do not exceed their data. In my experience, it will be fine.

Hope this helps!
 
OCD1 said:
I am trying to find the lightest target load to practice with the XD.
My dilemma is trying to use the powder which I have the most of HP-38.
Click to expand...

Understand. You've got the right powder. HP38 and 231 in current production being interchangeable, for all practical purposes, you might experiment with the starting load and even work backwards, since likely the only things that matter to you may be safe function of the gun and POA/POI convergence.

Recoil of the 5.0 grain load never was bothersome to me so I did not investigate further.

In any case, I believe you will find HP38/231 to be excellent with the lead bullets in your SIGs. Can't speak on XDs. In my M&P40, I switch to HS-6 or Longshot as I cannot maintain POA/POI convergence with the HP38/231 load, for some reason.

Naturally, it seems the HS-6 and Longshot loads do slam the gun (and shooter :eek: ) around a bit more, but accuracy still has been quite acceptable out to 25-yards. Have not shot the gun or ammo further.
 
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