What i mean is how does modern factory ammunition compare to when these were new calibers? It is weaker today right?

SAAMI specs for both calibers are fairly mild. Buffalo Bore and Mag Tech do make modern self defense loads in both .32 S&W Long and .38 S&W, for use in modern solid frame revolvers. I have four .32 Longs and gave my D-I-L a .38 S&W. I like the old cartridges.

To answer this question, you need to look at ballistics of original loads and those of today.

There is a Ballistics Chart for Revolvers in the 1925 S&W Catalog.

32 S&W, 85 grain bullet, velocities were 664 fps
Muzzle energy of 83.5 foot pounds

38 S&W, 145 grain bullet, velocities were 670 fps
Muzzle energy of 147 foot pounds

Barnes book on Cartridges of the World lists the following standard factory loads:

32 S&W, 85 grain bullet, velocities were 705 fps
Muzzle energy of 97 foot pounds

38 S&W, 145 grain bullet, velocities were 630 fps
Muzzle energy of 176 foot pounds

The 32 S&W and 38 S&W were introduced in 1877-1878 when black powder loads were standard. I can not find any references to black powder velocities or ME, but would guess that they are similar to early smokeless loads.

I do not have any knowledge or references that new factory ammo is loaded lighter than original, but would say the it is likely the velocities of these calibers have remained pretty much the same over the last almost 150 years.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Somebody's calculations on the.38 S&W has a problem.
145gr @ 670fps gives 147 Fp and 145gr @ 630fps gives 176 Fp
Same bullet, lower MV yet 31fp more energy???

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Some time ago, there was a posting here involving some chronograph measurements done indicating that modern .38 S&W smokeless loads had a somewhat lower MV than the original BP loadings, below 600 ft/sec. But the barrel length and barrel-cylinder gap would have a large effect on MV. The original factory .38 S&W black powder load (14.1 grains) had an average MV of 635 ft/sec from a 5" barrel.

I think it's safe to say that both smokeless and black powder .38 S&W loads have equivalent MVs from the same revolver, indicating that the average pressure is about the same. Remember from high school physics that F (force)=MxA (mass times acceleration). For the same gun and bullet, MxA must be the same if muzzle velocities are the same, therefore the propelling force F (average pressure x area) must be the same also.

I recently chronoed some Remington .38 S&W factory, the stuff that they label "Target." There was a bit of it available in my LGS. In an S&W double action top break, third issue, they failed to make 600 fps. Interestingly, they chambered nicely in a Model 14-3 (.38 Sp of course) from which they cruised at 700 fps, and made less than 1" groups at 7 yards. Depending on barrel length, I think there would not be much difference between original black and current smokeless loads, as DWalt indicates.

As I mentioned, the barrel/cylinder gap will make a big difference in MV, even if the barrel length is identical. And there can be a lot of variance in the gap. So anything printed giving MV data will likely not be what you'd get if you chronographed the same loads in your own revolver. I've determined that myself. I've read that some .38 Special revolvers will chamber .38 S&W cartridges. However, none of mine will.

I have read articles from both Taffin and Venturino that state almost any pistol load under 700 fps yields poor results on target. Theory is that the bullet needs at least 700 fps to become fully stabilized in most all caliber handguns.

Interesting to note that old S&W loads ran right around that 700 fps mark.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I will add that, while those Remingtons chamber in my 14-3, Winchester .38 S&Ws do not. I don't know all about the stabilization of low velocity handgun bullets. Elmer K. thought the .38 S&W, while not good for anything, was at least very accurate. I think that is in "Sixguns by Keith."