1876-1889 S&W Reloading Tools "Summation"

BMur · #1 11-11-2019, 11:11 PM

Many hours spent researching this subject. I've found so much info that it's hard to summarize.
I am convinced now that Smith & Wesson and Remington DID NOT manufacture the actual tools contained in these kits. What I could not confirm is what cartridge reloading tool manufacturer/vendor actually did.

Quite often when you research the old Gun manufacturers you will find that they occasionally sub-contracted parts manufacture to another firm. The problem being locating who in fact that firm was. More often it seems that they had no problem putting their company name on a product that was basically manufactured by another vendor (Remington?). So we remain in the dark never knowing that the basic product was in fact made somewhere else and the final product actually assembled or "put together" in a kit & boxed by the Gun Manufacturer. Many examples exist and are documented.( Too long a list for this thread)

The earliest listing for the tool kits I found in my Distributor collection is from the 1877 Remington full early catalog listing the .38 S&W and .44 Russian reloading components. This makes sense since the .32 was not introduced until 1878. The next listing in line was in the 1880 Homer Fisher( New York). This early listing is "IDENTICAL" to the 1883 listing in M. Robinson (New York) listing the S&W kits.
Also the photo of the tools is the same as listed by Smith & Wesson( Springfield, Mass) in their 1887 catalog. I also found the tool kit listed in Hibbard, Spencer & Bartlett & Co(Chicago) in their 1884 catalog for all 3 Smith & Wesson calibers.
When we cross reference the time frame( In the industry as a whole) we see a large volume of reloading boxed kits hitting the market in the 1881-1882 timeframe. Here is a very basic list:

1873-Earliest kits were straight line loaders for rifles by Maynard, Pickers, Marlin, Frankford Arsenal, Frank Wesson. etc
1874-Winchester field loader and later bullet mold in various calibers. Improved in 1875, 1880,1882, 1891, 1894. Huge success in the two tool kits. (Loader, bullet mold, and primer punch, boxed)

1875- Remington kits
1876- Smith & Wesson kits (Baby Russian) No evidence of a 44 American kit but the 44 Russian may have worked for both?
1877- Marlin straight line loader (primarily rifles)
1881-Marlin field loader (Primarily rifles)
1882- BGI (Bridgeport Gun Implements)
1882- U.S. Cartridge Co.
1882- U.M.C. Union Metallic Arms Co.
1884- Whitney

All of these kits have similarities but the 3 kits that are way beyond similar is the UMC, Remington, & Smith and Wesson kits.
These 3 kits contain parts that are identical. This strongly suggest that there was a vendor making the parts and the kits were basically assembled by the final product manufacturer?

Besides the dies, the key component is actually "The Mallet". This feather weight wooden part is identical in all 3 of the early kits. I say early because I have documented enough of the kits to see a transition in manufacture to improve the parts.

Primarily, the Wooden plunger was replaced with steel and the early Mallet (that was prone to snapping about 1" behind the head) was beefed up at that location to avoid breakage. I actually documented multiple repairs made at that location with copper rings etc. Changes and minor differences in the bullet molds can easily be attributed to early and late production and that is exactly what this survey attributes the differences to represent.

So, the real mystery here is Who the vendor was that was supplying all of these firms with the parts.
See photo's of early Mallets in the UMC kit, Early Smith and Wesson kit, and Early Remington kit. Then later Mallet in last two photos.
Also, I believe the early boxed kits were available in 1876 with the introduction of the Baby Russian and basically became surplus with the Market swing to the field type one piece loaders introduced by Winchester and Ideal. Both companies basically captured the Market from that point on. About circa 1882-1884.
Any kits listed for sale after that timeframe represented Surplus Stock. So these kits were manufactured for a short period and are very scarce to rare from any manufacturer listed.

Murph

BMur · #2 11-13-2019, 12:17 AM

I guess my results aren’t too popular. The purists seem to be devastated. Sort of like when Hillary lost?
The truth to me is enlightening and often entertaining. I laughed for days when Hillary lost!

The Union Metallic Cartridge Company along with Remington research was the pivotal information that proves these kits were “Put Togethers “ by in our case Some Gun Manufactures.
I found rock solid documents that prove the dies and bullet mold in the UMC kit were made by Bullard Machine Works of Bridgeport, Ct.
Yet you will note on the box of the UMC kit you see clearly “ Manufactured By The Union Metallic Cartridge Co”. The same goes for Remington.
So I learned a lot from this research about the lack of integrity in a lot of manufacturing during that Era. If there was no patent on the product? Even if there was, often the gun manufacturers claimed the product as their own in a shifty style that mirrors Major Distributors methods of that time.
Smith & Wesson seemed at that time to have enough integrity NOT to label their put together kits as manufactured by Smith & Wesson.

Murph

Modelof1891 · #3 11-13-2019, 09:16 AM

BMur,

Thank you for the time you have put in on this research! Not only the time in research but also the time it takes to spell it all out for us.

Makes me want to dig out my old kit and look it over!

BMur · #4 11-13-2019, 06:34 PM

Thanks much Terry,
I wasn’t sure that there was much interest plus there is a lot more information that I have from my research. I didn’t want to post a huge “ repertoire” but briefly ; it is true that the later kit shown in my first post with the wood handles on the mold?
Anyway it is seen available until approximately 1912. Introduced about 1889, replacing the earlier kits.
I saw this late kit having the second and third type bullet cavity. So they were made for a few short years.
However, these kits were also part of a very limited production. ( very few made). So By the 1912 timeframe they were long “surplus items”. Basically they didn’t sell!
The Market was very lucrative with reloading equipment but extremely competitive! By 1900 several other companies were manufacturing little serviceable kits at a much lower price.
Plus let’s not forget that Winchester and Ideal were “ Rock Solid”establishments that were very hard to compete with.
So the second kit effort was not successful.
So regarding the second kit, the results were basically the same information as the first kit. Contracted manufacture, put together, and short lived.
** I have to comment on the Mallet also. I can’t resist. I have one in my collection. It’s a neat item but Honestly I can’t see how anyone could have used it to seat a bullet? It weighs about the same as a bag of potato chips! I don’t know what they were thinking? They were likely broken quickly and tossed or they stayed in the box and the owner used another heavier item to reload with.
So I’d have to say that an original Mallet is the rarest item and I’d suspect a reproduction when one is found. Original Mallets have a hollowed out head that appears to be corked.

Murph

mmaher94087 · #5 11-13-2019, 08:07 PM

Only a guess on the mallet weight but I'd want something that tapped the bullet to seat it rather than mushrooming the lead or driving it to the bottom of the case in one whack.

BMur · #6 11-14-2019, 12:23 AM

Hey Mike,
Yeah, you would think that a gentle touch is a preferred method? but in reality with a kit type loader you have to whack it pretty hard to get the bullet started. Especially the early S&W bullets? The company preferred a very tight seated bullet with "NO" case crimp on the early design.
Mega moons ago when I got out of the Navy I didn't have much so I couldn't afford a bench press to reload. So my first experience reloading was with this type of kit. The cheap but very serviceable "LEE" loader. (see photo) I still use one on occasion to reload rare caliber rifle rounds for the range.
Even with these modern kits you have to whack the plunger pretty hard with a hard wood mallet to get the bullet moving then follow up with soft steady whacks.
These early wood mallets were not heavy enough to seat the early S&W bullets with a tight case to bullet skirt fit. Especially the .38 and .44 Russian? NO WAY! You'd be tapping on the bullet for days before it would start to move. I swear the original mallet weighs about the same as a Sharpie. Who knows, maybe I'm missing something from the instructions? Perhaps you were suppose to pop the cork core out and replace it with a lead insert?
I'll dig mine out tomorrow and photo it.
** Oh, one other thing Mike. These early kits just like the LEE Loader both have a "STOP" on the plunger that will prevent the operator from seating the bullet too deep. I just re-read the original S&W instructions and it says that the operator can use the Hand or the Mallet to seat the bullet until the plunger shoulders against the die. If you use your hand? You'd have to stand up and put your body weight on the plunger to get the bullet moving. The bullet seats that tightly.

Murph

BMur · #7 11-14-2019, 01:54 PM

Here are a few photos of an original Mallet. It weighs the same as two sharpies.
If you look close on the corked side of the mallet you can see the imprint of a 32 caliber die.

Murph