Here is a simple question: would a .44 Russian cartridge fit into a cylinder chambered for .44-40? Does the .44-40 cylinder have the "ridge" around the inside of the cylinder like the .44 Russian does? I was under the impression that the .44-40 was narrower than the .44 Russian and the latter would not go into a chamber made for a .44-40...
Thanks for your advice!

I just tried it and a .44 Russian will drop into a .44-40 chamber, but it is not by any means a "fit".

Thank you! That explains it. Looks like the .44-40 with its bottleneck would have a ridge in the cylinder, too.

The .44-40 is basically like a .45 Colt necked down to .44(.427). And way more potent than the .44 Russian.

__________________
Expect the unexpected

The chambers of a mint 44 Winchester in a NM3 or 44 DA Frontier will actually show two very shallow constrictions. Foremost one will be for the bullet and the next one back will be for the bottleneck of the case. Worn or dark bore chambers will often make is hard to see those ridges.

__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515

Really, when we compare the two cartridges they differ greatly in design and origin. The 44 Winchester is a "RIFLE" cartridge in origin. The 44 Russian is a "Pistol" cartridge in origin...Which presented several problems actually on the frontier.

The original concept was to combine a Rifle caliber/cartridge with a Pistol chambering to provide a "Frontier" solution to a cartridge availability issue. Did it work? Not as well as you might imagine. It made sense in a lot of ways but in reality it presented some significant problems if you weren't careful out there on the frontier.

See Photo> I personally do not enjoy reloading the 44WCF because it is poorly supported in reloading dies from having a bottleneck case. The result is often a dimpled/worthless result if you are not careful. The problem is solved with careful reloading with a bench mounted press and case preparation but did they have that out on the Frontier?
Chamber pressures are much higher in the rifle that would "Fire form" the case to a totally different result than the black powder pistol.

What they should have done was make a 44 Russian lever action Rifle....that would have actually been a better Idea!



Murph

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The 44 Russian, Special, and magnum are great to reload and shoot and that is where I stay. One thing I would be interested in is a comparison of accuracy of 44-40 and 44 Special in guns of equal quality. That could be arranged with S&W or Colt replica revolvers, or with a choice of replica lever actions. Anyone ever see any shooting info on this question?

I don't think the 44WCF is even close to the 44 Russian in "Pistol" accuracy. Mainly due to the fact that the 44 Russian being "extremely" versatile. I've found more Target loads for the 44 Russian in the Black Powder ERA than any other pistol caliber and I keep finding more. It was the most accurate large caliber pistol round in the Black Powder ERA "period". This actually continued into the "early" Smokeless ERA with the hand ejectors. The round was "KING" for many years until the "Smokeless" 44 Special put it to rest.

The 44WCF was basically a novelty in a pistol. It served its purpose for a very short time when cartridge availability was a real issue.
The only real option with the 44WCF is a FULL Load since it has a Rifle/bottle neck case that doesn't allow for various loadings. "I Don't believe in the "FILL" concept. It's a "Hot Rod" solution that does not produce accurate pressure from one case to another.) Plus you "are" introducing an air gap between the powder and bullet. So, it is somewhat dangerous! Especially when you use food products?

The 44WCF also doesn't allow for a significant choice in bullets. So, basically in my opinion The 44 Russian would kick you know what at the range. "Hands Down".

The only real advantage the 44WCF has over the Russian is case volume? I mean it is "Powerful" with a full load of Black Powder. I've shot this load in both the Colt Frontier and Smith & Wesson Frontier many times because it's a kick in the pants. Big BOOM! But honestly, it's best place is in the rifle chamber.

Murph

The below photo's depict a Pre-1960 Ideal Sizing Die. I have earlier ones that date to pre-1900 but they are basically the same with earlier die stamps and tools, etc. Notice the photo of the die chamber? Remember that the Re-sizing die mimics the Pistol or rifle chamber of the same caliber. It is machined to size the case to perfectly fit into in this case the Smith & Wesson Frontier Revolver?

The taper is actually near invisible to the naked eye in a clean chamber/die. This is how the pistol chamber "should" also appear. The reason it doesn't is because of corrosion from being loaded and left loaded for some period of time. So corrosion is actually taking place from dis-similar metals that are in constant contact at the taper of the pistol chamber. Causing a corrosion ring to appear.

This is in no way the same as the 44 Russian chamber. Totally different animal. The 44 Russian "Pistol" cartridge has a "case stop" which is the exact location where the case stops and the throat begins.

With the 44WCF? That taper is where the case "Tapers" or bottle necks down to throat specs but it is not the same as the 44 Russian since the bullet diameter remains smaller than the case throat. So, that's also an issue with accuracy of the Rifle bullet in the Pistol cylinder. Not really a good idea.

I honestly think it's best said that this rifle caliber in a pistol is a novelty item. It's kind of a joke really. I honestly don't think that Smith & Wesson was too thrilled with the idea but collectors love the rarity of the caliber. I just like the big Black Powder "BOOM"!



Murph

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I like just about any kind of .44, I shoot them all, some through Italian repops just for kicks (no pun intended). I have a Uberti Repop of the Colt Bisley in 44-40 it is very pleasant to shoot with 30 grs of Old Eynesford 3F under a .060 wad and 200 gr .427 RNFP bullet. I shoot that same load in another Uberti repop of the Schofield, its fun but fouls much quicker than the Colt. It begins to foul at the cylinder gap which makes it more difficult for people to re-cock for next shot. I've found that by wiping the cylinder face after every other cylinder does a good job of eliminating the fouling problem. I also have re-pop Winchesters chambered in 44-40, one a model '73, the other a Lightning pump. They could benefit from more powder and probably .429 bullet, I keep things simple and have a load that works in everything quite well. Accuracy with 44-40 is minute of man or deer out to 50yds, I have not bothered to try out to 100, I have real rifles for those purposes. If you just like to shoot its pretty tough to beat the Italian repops, they do hold up well, although their case hardening is more paint than actually hardening.
I only have one firearm in .44 Russian, an original 1st Model .44 D.A. I tried Cowboy Smokeless loads in it originally and believe the sharper recoil does the piece no further good, it seems to work much better with black powder and is all that much more fun to shoot, cleaning is always something I consider part of the hobby and take the time to thoroughly clean all firearms after use. I recently got lazy and let some 44-40 cartridges set after firing black powder for more than a couple weeks and needed to give them an extra soak in vinegar to remove the staining, followed by a thorough tumble to get nice and clean.

Kinman,
Can you post a photo of the pistol chambers of your modern 44/40 knock off? I’m wondering what kind of milling they did. If you’re hitting the target at 50 yards? They must have extended the chamber to include a throat that now equals bullet diameter. In other words, they must have introduced a case stop! That is not the case with antique pistols in 44 WCF.

Murph

.44 - 40 Chambers ~ 'S & W', "DA" ( not mine, image borrowed from a Gunbroker Listing some time ago...)

Hosted on Fotki

One can always run .44 Russian Bullets through a Sizing Die to reduce their diameter a little, for use in .44 - 40 Revolver, if one wants to use Target Bullets of the old styles or what-ever else.

The only .44 - 40 Revolvers I have so far, are a Merwin Hulbert, and a Colt New Service dating to 1899.

I plan to resize some of my favorite .44 Russian Bullets, for these.

Some while ago there was a minty perfect S & W "DA" Target Model chambered in .44 - 40.

I think it was starting bid or $3,400.00

I really wanted to get it, simply because it was so totally wacky and improbable!

I did not get it, and it disappeared from the listings after a while, so...someone got it, but not me.

Looking back, I kind of wish I had gotten it, just because it was so interesting and minty and in it's way, made no sense to even exist!

But, I guess someone 'Special Ordered' it, way back when, and they felt, that is what they wanted!

I doubt I will ever see another.

I , recently almost bought a Colt New Service in 44-40 to compliment my 1894 Marlin (early one , 3 digit serial #) in 44-40 . My Marlin as what I would call the perfect barrel . The groove diameter is .426 . I cast / size my 200 RNFP bullets .427 . The case necks only expand about 1/2 thousandths when fired . The throat is that snug .
Now , back to the Colt I almost bought . I had been wanting a New Service for quite some time . I was excited to find one in nice condition at my local gun shop . I felt I should have the cylinder throats and groove diameter of the barrel measured before committing . The owner has a local gun smith so we had him measure them . The owner of the shop called me back yesterday to tell me it had came back and it is " serviceable " . I thought , what does that mean ?
It turns out the cylinder throats are .427 and the groove diameter of the barrel is " .433 " , really ! I am not sure you could get a cast bullet that size in the case w/o crushing it . Needless to say , I'm glad I did a little research before buying it , I passed on it . Regards Paul

The old Colts can have some pretty goofy "Groove-to-Groove" sometimes!

.433 would of course not even chamber in .427 Cylinder Bores.

Ugh!

I have not measured my "New Service" yet, so cross your fingers for me that it is "Okay".

Murph, These are the two repop cylinders, forgive the camera work. To clarify the only 44-40's I have that shoot to 50 yards are carbines, one '73 and the other a Lightning Pump.


Schofield


Bisley

.433 would of course not even chamber in .427 Cylinder Bores.

Ugh!

I have not measured my "New Service" yet, so cross your fingers for me that it is "Okay".[/QUOTE]


Just a reference, my 1891 Colt single action is .424 throat and .430 bore.
Those old 44/40 Colt measurements were often all over the place and therefore not very accurate.

JohnBz,
I like the SAA's also. One thing though with the Antiques? They were often modified at some point. It's so easy to change barrels, cylinders, etc to even another caliber and if it's a later post say 1885 variation? There are no numbers on the cylinders. So the cylinder could have easily been replaced at some point. Possibilities with the Single Action Colts are endless. Often you will see matching numbers but when looking at the caliber on the trigger guard it might be stamped 44cal....but the gun is now a 45cal..?? How did that happen?? and it looks totally original.

I have a few SAA shooters that are put togethers. I've even changed calibers myself starting with a basic relic 'Antique" frame and assembling a great shooter.
I like shooting the .41 Long with Black Powder load so I have a few in that caliber that are Frankenguns but are a ton of fun to shoot and actually are extremely accurate.
I just can't pull the trigger on my minty antiques. I like brown or refinished guns for shooting. No harm done.


Murph

The bottom line is that a 44 Russian will fit in a 44 Frontier chamber. The cartridge rattles in the chamber due to the fact that the 44R brass is .014" smaller. Would it shoot through the smaller bore? Absolutely, but would raise the pressure by some unknown amount. The difference is only .006" and with relatively soft lead, should not be a problem for a 44R bullet to travel through the barrel of a 44 Frontier. Could the brass split at the base and blow back into the shooter's face, maybe.

As I took these images, I found one more issue with using 44R brass. Since the rim is smaller diameter, it can slip below the extractor star and fall back into the chamber.

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__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515

A few years back someone posted a "Relic" condition Double Action 44 Smith & Wesson that was "found" loaded. I can't remember which caliber it was? 44 Russian or 44WCF? but what was very interesting was that the cylinder was still loaded with like 4 different types of 44 caliber rounds.....44 Bulldog, 44 Webley, 44 Russian, etc.....so desperate times called for desperate measures I guess.


Murph

Hey Murph,
You want a few more of these??
I have a number of them sitting on my reloading bench....

__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

LOL.... I rarely load for 44WCF just for that reason. Nothing like keeping evidence that you can't load right? I keep telling myself that I'll just cut the cases down below my screw up and make 45 shorts? That was like 25 years ago.



Murph

In my mind, the 44-40 case is very fragile and everyone has crushed their share of cases. I keep a bag of trimmed replacements at hand every time I reload. As you can see from the images I posted, that they can be reloaded following a few rules. First for me is to use a single stage press. My Rock Chucker will do a great job and I am willing to put in the extra time to do this caliber justice. Second, is to check and trim as needed, so every case being reloaded is exactly the same length.

Third and last is to be careful that once you set your bullet seating die/crimper lock it solidly in place. I placed a set screw collar on my Lee Carbide die set and lock it up when properly set. Even though I try to not move any adjustment on the die set, I always turn the bullet seater up a quarter turn and leave the die about 1/16" high and then seat the first bullet. If everything goes fine, I screw down the die and adjust the seating depth and start production. It is now a rare occurrence to crush a 44-40 case.

I shoot both revolver and rifle in this caliber and find that a solid crimp is needed for my leverguns, so pay attention to that detail as well.

__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515

.429 lead bullets will go in the "supposed" .427 .44-40 without an issue. If using jacketed bullets then you can resize them to .425 witout a problem, but, slug your barrel first, I was not joking when I said "supposed", specially in a revolver, rifles and carbines generally have it right .

__________________
Expect the unexpected

There is a lot of variation in .44-40 brass, too.
My Winchester has a .428" reline so I really wanted to load .429" bullets for it and my 3rd Generation Colt .44 Special with .44-40 cylinder added. That worked in WW brass but RP brass was tight in the rifle chamber and would not go in my Colt at all. Turned out it was the RP brass, no bullet would let it chamber in the Colt.
Starline brass was in between; I could use it in lever action and revolver with a .428" bullet. Which are not common so I just went with the usual .427". Fine accuracy was not necessary for CAS.

.44-40 has been one of my favorites calibers for a long time. I´ve a couple of New Service models in that caliber plus a M&H Pocket Army. I´ve also missed a chance of buying a rare .44 DA Frontier that was part of a Chilean Customs contract. I´m still regretting about that one.

I´ve almost never had a problem when resizing cases: IMHO all they need is to be lubed prior to sizing. I just roll them over a stamp pad sprayed with some RCBS Case lube.
That seems to work fine. I´m also gentle with the press handle when running them trough the sizing die. The only cases I´ve ruined were due to an excess of lube that ended up bulging them when resizing.

I honestly appreciate the techniques posted regarding loading and shooting the 44WCF in a Pistol? I personally like the BIG BOOM as I mentioned with the Full load Black Powder?

However, I can't hit the broad side of a Barn with it so I've never honestly pursued loading for this caliber. I've shot it plenty of times with Black Powder in both the Smith & Wesson Frontier DA and Colt 78 Frontier but I can't shoot it accurately enough for my taste. If I can't at least hit a Baseball sized target at 25 yards with a Pistol? I'll opt for a caliber that I can.

The 44 Russian, 44 Special, and 44 Mag would kick you know what at the range against any 44 WCF Pistol and that's at "ANY" distance. That's not me tooting my own horn. That's the gun and the caliber talking. So, I've never bothered with the round honestly. I've tried different loads, bullets, seating depths, etc and it's a joke compared to the Smith & Wesson calibers. Period.

I have gotten the round to pattern shoot in a pistol but it's never been dialed in from my perspective. I've never seen "anyone" compete with that caliber when I was target shooting. Never even heard of anyone trying to. So, I still consider it a novelty in a pistol and serves best in a medium rifle loading and platform at relatively short distances. To me it doesn't make sense to even try really since it's a "Rifle round" and was designed for a Rifle platform. It's not versatile in design or loading. That's just my experience with the round. If someone thinks that they can stand it up against a Smith & Wesson 44 revolver loading? I'd like to see it done.

Also, historically speaking, Smith & Wesson never manufactured any reloading kits for the Winchester calibers. They clearly referred to their tools for that purpose. I've never done the research on how Smith & Wesson felt about chambering their pistols for Winchester calibers but I honestly believe that they weren't thrilled about it because of the accuracy issue. Again, historically speaking, the reason they chambered the 44WCF in a pistol was due to cartridge availability issues on the Frontier. That's the root meaning for the term "Frontier" revolver. Same caliber for both your rifle and pistol. It was a short lived idea.

****One last point of historical reference? I'd like to see just one reference for a "TARGET SHOOTER" of the Antique era that used a 44WCF pistol to target shoot with? There isn't one because they would have been laughed off the range by folks like IRA Payne that was using either the 44 Russian or 38-44 New Model 3 Target gun. NO such animal as a 44WCF target gun. Not in the Antique era anyway...Now if someone brings up a modern heavily modified 44WCF target pistol.........That's cheating....


Murph

I don't have any problems with resizing... it's the seating and crimping the bullet where I run afoul....

__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

The easiest solution is to use heeled bullets with a taper at the heel and just a little bullet lube on the skirt. Then follow up with a collet type crimping die that LEE sells pretty cheap. These crimping dies put zero stress on the case. I have these collet crimpers for every other pistol caliber but the 44wcf just because I don't load for it a lot but that would solve the dimpled case issues. Then the only issue becomes contaminating the powder load since you put some lube on the bullet skirt. I'd just make sure that you store them bullet down and you should be ok. I'd imagine that the old field loaders would dimple a lot of cases though. No way to stop it out in the brush.




Murph

You guys got me going so I did a little research to see what I could find on the 44WCF. I found no listing both modern or antique for a TARGET pistol in 44 WCF.

What I did find was an excellent performance test performed and documented using a Winchester rifle that matched original Black Powder loads. The round is basically done at 120 yards from an accuracy standpoint due to extreme bullet drop and this is from a rifle! Hard to believe but bullet drop is 5-6 feet at 200 yards! And at 500 yards it drops an unbelievable 60 feet! You’d have to aim at the moon to hit a deer at that range! LOL.

Murph

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Agreed Phil,
However, often the 44 Winchester cases are used in a Rifle so there might be an issue when you try to then chamber them into a pistol chamber without resizing them and vice/versa. As long as you stay with the exact same gun that the case was fired in you shouldn't have a problem. I'm often buying used cases at gun shows so I have to resize them for the first shot in my black powder pistol.


Murph

Unfortunately Lee is currently sold out of the collect crimpers in 44/40.
I'm pretty sure an uncrimped slug will walk-out and jam the cylinder.


Question... Any place to buy the heeled 44 bullets or is it a case of casting them?

__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

I just bought a 44WCF collet die 10 mins ago for $20 free shipping

Use a search engine!! Lots available. PM me if you are having trouble. We can’t post active auctions etc per site rules.
I found these .427 lead bullets available also in stock! For as little as $12.99 for 100. Sized and lubed. Plus they have a nice clean taper at the heel!!

Murph

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When I first started messing around with a new Uberti Bisley in 44-40 I got some cases from a friend, along with dies. I shoot black powder in a number of firearms so was ready to go. I had some round nose cowboy bullets in 200gr that I had ordered for my SAA Colt in .44Spl. they were sized at .429.

I loaded up fifty to give it a test, I had given the cases a light factory crimp. I tested a bullet in the chamber of the Bisley and it would not seat, I could seat it with serious thumb pressure but was not going to play around with that, tried all chambers and they were all foul. My dilemma was now either pull the bullets or give running them through the sizer die a shot. I pulled the primer punch out of the die and thankful it was a carbide die ran one through, no major problem, a little squeeze factor was all. I got out the Bisley and dropped it into the chamber, no problem.
I have since learned that quite a few bullet makers that cater to the Import repop cowboy market make .427 200gr. RNFP bullets for the 44-40. The are actually labelled .427 200gr. 44-40
Doing everything as I did before using the .427 bullets, no problem. I have not tried using a .429 bullet in either of the carbines which are also Uberti's...I like to keep things simple. The 32-20 is a different animal, you shouldn't load old S&W revolvers the way you can load the Winchester, I keep those bullets separate by colored boxes.

My Merwin Hulbert .44 - 40, the Cylinder Bores measure out to .425, and likewise the Barrel's Groove-to-Groove.

My 1899 Colt 'New Service' in .44 - 40, Cylinder Bores and Barrel's Groove-to-Groove, are .426.

I had some time in my shop today and took a closer look at "Antique" 44WCF cylinders that I have in my spare parts box for the following Antique firearms:

Merwin & Hulbert "Pocket Army"
Single Action Army Colt Pre-1900
Colt New Service Swing out Post 1900
Belgium "Copy" Single Action Army
Smith & Wesson early Frontier Double Action

Following results:

Merwin: Throat: .426
SAA Colt Throat: .427-.429
Colt New Service: .428
S&W Frontier D/A: .428-.429
Belgium Copy(Poor): .437

I was honestly surprised to actually see case stops in the cylinders. The throat is very mild and short in length at the very end of the cylinder. See photo of the Smith & Wesson Frontier Revolver in 44/40.

So, I suppose it's possible to achieve decent accuracy with this caliber in the Antique firearm but you would have to modify the loads. So technically it would not be historically accurate. They would not be the original loads during the Antique period that were limited and basically tailored for the Rifle. Your options in the Old West were often very limited with the 44/40 cartridge. Better Accuracy would "require" modification of loads and bullet weights that were "NOT" available in the old west. However, I have confirmed through research that there were no less than 14 different "Factory loads" for the 44 Russian available and I keep finding more.

**** NOTE: I think when I get everything loaded up for the New Model 3 target revolver tests I'll include a challenge between a Smith & Wesson D/A in 44 Russian vs a Smith & Wesson D/A in the Frontier 44/40 but I know the outcome already because I will be using multiple loads for the Russian that were available in the Old West that I've already dialed in and I will only be using one historically accurate load for the 44/40 so just for fun I guess.

Lastly, with just a little research you will note that others have also complained about the barrel groove diameter being much larger than the .427 WCF bullet. It seems to have been a common problem also with the caliber for some reason so that also doesn't help with accuracy. The solution that most of them came to was to replace the barrel with the correct size groove diameter. That falls under modification to me and most collectors see any parts replacement as detrimental to value of the antique. If its just a shooter? What the heck.

Murph

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“The 44WCF was basically a novelty in a pistol. It served its purpose for a very short time when cartridge availability was a real issue.”

Produced from 1878-1940 in the Colt SAA. 71,392 guns, 2nd most poular cartridge in the 1st Gen SAA. A short lived novelty?

Dan

Agreed - the 44-40 was one of the most common revolver cartridges of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. I get excellent results with a S&W 544 and both Longshot and Unique with 180, 200, and 240 grain bullets, both jacketed and cast (.429"). The Smith has .428" throats and .429" barrel.

Big Muddy,

Well, if you want to include Colts? on a Smith & Wesson forum I guess your point would be well made. Also, if you want to breach the "Antique" forum that terminates in 1899 and extend it to 1940...That's adding about 42 years? My comment was in reference to the "ANTIQUE" "Smith & Wesson" models that chambered the 44WCF being short lived. I was not referring to Colts, Remingtons, Merwin & Hulberts, or any "modern" guns that chambered the 44WCF.

The sole purpose of the 44WCF on a pistol platform, "PRIOR" to 1898 was to provide the same cartridge for your pistol/rifle combo out on the frontier. Clearly documented, many references. Accuracy during the "ANTIQUE" era was not great. I knew the smokeless folks would be chiming in sooner or later and re-writing my posts into the modern era. Totally different guys. They didn't have jacketed bullets, no Unique powder yet. "BLACK POWDER" era. No moly-lubed bullets, no hardened bullets, no lubaloy, just 16-1 lead with black powder loads....No 240 grain bullets offered back then "IN" 44WCF. No trick loads and the model 544 wasn't introduced until 1986 so you're 88 years out of ERA?.....OK?? They didn't even have decent single stage presses yet. It was a joke compared to modern hand loads...In fact if you look at "ONLY" antique loads for the 44WCF your options were minimal prior to 1899....That's what my posts are focused on.....<<<<<"ANTIQUE ERA">>>>> and if we 'stay' in the antique era, it was a novelty ( Defined in Websters dictionary as New and "UNUSUAL") What exactly is your definition of Novelty? and why is my use of the term inaccurate?

Accuracy was not good with a 44WCF rifle black powder round and rifle black powder load Chambered in a pistol platform during the Antique ERA. I have to make things clear so they don't get twisted and distorted.

Even Elmer Keith stated that the original Black powder load in a pistol was "POOR"....but hand loaded was very accurate with "SMOKELESS POWDER".....Different era...They didn't have that option for the "COLT FRONTIER SIX SHOOTER" when it was in its NOVELTY Glory.... "PRE-1899"....

To be fair? If you want to compare a modern model 544 chambering the 44/40 then we must also allow the 44 Mag to compete since it's origin was the 44 Russian. Talk about versatile.

Murph

Hear Hear!

Been biting my Tongue, so, I am glad to read your speaking up on this Murph!

Now, for our latter 1800s S & W .44-40 Revolvers or other 'period' Revolvers of this chambering, my own plan is to Load 240 ish grain Bullets ( one part Tin to 19 parts pure Lead ) of old form, meant for .44 Russian, and sized down appropriately TO the particulars of the Revolver in question, use 28 Grains of 3 F Swiss ( tops ), either seat the Bullets "Deep" or add some Malto Meal so I have 'good compression', use right Lube and use it in the right way, and chronograph them just-to-see what they do...and my guess, out of a 6 inch Barrel, I suspect they will do about 800 FPS. And, may then be a sensible Revolver Cartridge, rather than to be trying to use a Rifle or Carbine Cartridge, in a Revolver.

And if our MH or Colt ( since we do not yet have an S & W in .44-40 ) happens to be "The House Gun du jour", then we have a healthy well calculated and prepared Cylinder full of such Rounds in waiting, with a charged HKS Speed Loader at it's side.

So that one may then say - "All is well in the Garden".

Thanks Phil,
I think I'll follow your lead for my Frontier 44 D/A S&W...See if I can get it to pattern shoot. I'll try different seating depths as well as a few different bullet weights. I'm only going to use full black powder loads though...I like the punch. Once I get all these project loads together I'll do some shooting out in National forest since fire season is over. As long as it's not snowing.


Murph

My apologies! I thought the reference was to the cartridge, not the gun.

Dan

Hey Dan,
Thanks, no harm done. Phil and I will do our best to dial in the original black powder loads. Just not a lot of versatility to the bottleneck case design with black powder or substitute. It is a lot of fun to shoot the antique full load and has a solid punch with black powder.

Murph

I also hope to load some 'Standard' .44-40, using the traditional Bullet and Powder Charge of the later 1800s, and to Chronograph those, out of my 1899 Colt "New Service" to see what they do.

Then compare those of course, to the Loading I had mentioned in which I would size down heavier .44 Russian Bullets, and reduce the Powder Charge.

Sorry I do not yet have an S & W Revolver in 44-40 to do these tests with!

https://twitter.com/HighCaliberHist/...606400/photo/2



https://twitter.com/HighCaliberHist/...T1dHY6zeK63HrA


44 Winchester "Two Peas In A Pod"

Poor thing!

Oye!

Just drop that thing in a bucket of Ed's Red for about a week, ply it with a brass brush and it'll clean right up.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Still offered today. A revolver and rifle in the same caliber who’d a thunk it?

.44-40 | Rifles | Henry Repeating Arms | Henry Repeating Arms

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Plant garlic in the fall