I think these are Russian made. Consecutive serial numbers F0185 and F0187. They have never been fired or dry fired. They are in the original presentation box. I am curious to find out what they are worth. Does anyone know what they are worth??????[email protected]

These guns have pearl handles and 24kt gold trim. I have great pictures but I do not know how to post on the forum.

From bdGreen

I use Photobucket at 'photobucket.com'

It's free...

1. REGISTER

2. LOGIN

3. Have your image stored on your hard drive.

4. You will see a square empty box about midway down on your screen with a blue box with white lettering that says:

"CHOOSE FILES"

5. Double tap "CHOOSE FILES"

6. Browse to the directory on your hard drive where the image is stored.

6. Double click the image file name.

7. The file will automatically download and will now be stored on your Photobucket page. It will remain stored there until you delete it.

8. For posting to a forum go to the image of your choice. Below that image find the blue 'IMG code' line. (Pale yellow background box with fine black lettering.)

11. Place your cursor on the text 'IMG code' and tap the left mouse button one time which will turn the box background blue.

12. While it is now white lettering with a blue background press the right mouse button and select 'COPY'.

13. Open up a new post on the Forum or respond to an existing one.

14. Place your cursor in the dialogue box.

15. Press the right mouse button and select 'PASTE'.

16. The whole image title should be in the dialogue box with the brackets and [IMG] at the first of the string and brackets [/IMG] at the end of the string.

17. If you "Post Now", your post will have just your image. Now is the time to add your text. Just don't disrupt the format of the pasted image.

18. If your image is much too large you can go back to Photobucket and use their "EDIT" button to resize your image. Or, you can go back to your own photo editor for a resize and resubmit the image.

I find that if you size your images to 800 pixels wide you will get maximum page size without being too large. That is providing your picture was taken at a nominal size to begin with. If your picture started out smaller than that then leave it so it won't be distorted by a resize.

One word of caution. Once you have posted your pictures and submitted them to the post if you go back into Photobucket and delete the image all of your posts will lose that image.

Good Luck

bdGreen

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

????????? 185 & 187 are NOT consecutive serial numbers???????

Sounds like a pair of .44 Russians to me. Smith & Wesson contracted with Russia to build approximately 150,000 military revolvers in 1873, and chambered in .44 Russian, which was different from the .44 American and/or .44 Colt. The Russian cartridge was the predecessor of the .44 Special and, much, later, the .44 Magnum. Most guns made for the Russian government had the barrel marked in Cyrillic. Many were made with American (English) markings, and the Japanese Navy purchased some as well. There were several variations: Old, Old Model Russian, Old Model Russian, and New Model Russians. We'd need pictures to make a proper evaluation. In excellent condition, an Old Old Model sells for upwards of $10,000; the others about $6,000. Serial # range of these appear to be Old, Old Model Russians, unless they were a "re-issue". You should reference the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson (SCSW), 3rd Edition, for more info. They sound like wonderful guns!

MikeyL
"Life's tough. Tougher when you're stupid." -John Wayne

]Schofield set of Russian made guns. Old Model F0185 and F0187[/URL]

Here is the set of Schofields. They have never been fired or dry fired. I am going to put them in the Classified section. I have seen them in the appraisal Smith and Wesson book for 6000.00 plus each. This is a rare set with 24kt. gold engraving and perfect pearl white handles. I hate to part with these beautiful peaces of history. I am still curious on there true value. ?????

]Enjoy.[/URL]

Those are not Schofields, or even close copies. Maybe copies of the 2nd or 3rd model S&W Russians. If you, or someone, paid an appraiser to value these at $6K ea. you got scammed. Any appraiser knowledgeable & honest would have told you what they were and where they were made. I would put them as being of middle eastern origin, perhap Turkish or Russiam made copies, as best I can tell from the photos. Are the screw threads metric, or ?? What makers marks and fitters/assembler stamps are on any of the parts? What story was told you when you got them? I think you best chance to get you any money back is to put them in a no reserve auction and hope a couple of deep pockets want to fight over the set! Good Luck!

That's funny Mr. Opoefc. You sounded if you knew something until you stated a no-reserve auction. These guns are registered Schofields. Model #3 Russian made. They have all the S&W markings. I will post pictures soon. They have a lanyard clip on the handle which signify model #3. Lets try again.

First off as stated this is not a Consecutive numbered pair. At best they are a set of copies because F0185 & F0187 aren't in the serial number range of any of the Top Breaks that Smith & Wesson ever made and certainly not the Schofield which these are not!

These look a lot like some of the Franklin Mint set I've seen offered over the Years. I've never seen any of these that ever brought even the original asking price when sold at a later date.

Also, you might try supplying good quality close-ups that might let a few of the members here give you a better idea of exactly what you do have. You photos are too small and of too poor a quality to give real detailed answers but Ed told you the truth about what you don't have.

If you can't handle the Truth then don't ask the questions!

Registered Schofields?? Where’s the “Registration” letter from?
Franklin Mint?
As Ed said they ARE NOT Schofields. The barrel latch doesn’t even pivot the right way. I would need to see a lot of provenance (like a factory letter) other than what you were told when you bought them. If you’re lucky they will letter as S&W made Russian Models. And if you are really lucky they will letter as special engraved presentation models.
However, I wouldn’t bet the farm on it.
And, as for a no-reserve auction. This seems to have been proven as the best way to maximize the amount received from a gun at auction. It is a true indicator of what the market thinks they’re worth. Of course it’s not a good way to recover a high investment if the guns aren’t what you think they are.
By the way, if you are trying to “catch” somebody with a pair of fancied up reproductions, you came to the wrong place.

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Ed, KKG, and Deadin-----this looks like a great opportunity for me to learn a thing or two---what tipped you guys off to this? What were the give aways, other than the serial # range?

PLEASE take me to school!!!

Chris

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Chris K

At first it was the non-S&W serial range. Then the pictures showed the wrong barrel latch for a Schofield. Also the grips are too white for old pearls. (Of course, that could be because of the poor pictures.) The casing looks modern made and the general overall impression just doesn’t seem to be right.
As with Mike (KKG) the first thing that I thought of when seeing them was “Franklin Mint” . (The “F” prefix on the serial also shouts this.)
I’m thinking they are a recently made Italian replica that has been “Franklinized” and sold as a modern collectible. (Kind of like Beanie Babies on steroids.)

Then there’s Ed’s opinion which is worth a whole lot to anybody into the old S&W’s.

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Now we are talking. Keep it coming guys. I need to find out what these are worth and I will have more pics. soon. Sorry if I offended Ed. I was told guys might try to get me to put them on a no-reserve auction to steal them away. I am curious about the Franklin Mint. Please explain the latch? I have seen some of the Schofields and it looks as if they open exactly the same?????

For comparison, here is a real Schofield:

First off they aren't Schofields and second the case doesn't look like the older Smith cases that I've seen. Wrong style. Franklin Mint has been producing things like these for a number of Years without any thought to being right with the type or style of gun being used. Also, Ed does know what he's talking about.

]Russian Schofield #3[/URL]Here is a picture of a Russian Schofield which the round handle, lanyard clip on the bottom of the handle, break barrel latch is identical.???

I am still curious on the serial #. F0185 & F0187. Any thoughts.

Couple more things…
First off we need to get our terminology straight. The latest picture you posted is not a "Schofield Russian #3". There is no such thing as a Russian Schofield. What is pictured is what is known as a #3, Third Model Russian.
The pointy “hump” at the top of the backstrap (just above the grip panels) is unique to the 2nd and 3rd Model Russians (not the Schofield). The shorter ejector housing indicates a 3rd Model. As to who made it, we will need detailed pictures or descriptions of all of the markings on the barrel rib and elsewhere.
Also, are they rim-fire or center-fire?

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

OK. New information. You have to excuse my ignorance. I am asking all of you things I know nothing about. The new information is the serial #'s are slightly off. The serial #'s are F00895 and F00887. Not consecutive. I am truly sorry. My father has asked me to help him in this matter and he has eyesight like a bat. There is writing on the top of the barrel in Russian, and on the side of the barrel it say's. CAL. 44 S&W Russian

These serial numbers also make me feel that these were some of the guns made up by the Franklin Mint. Google Franklin Mint for more information. Don't know if it will do you any good or not.

If this were a Smith & Wesson it would have a Logo somewhere on it. You should realize that there were many folks making copies of the Smith & Wessons especially during the time frame of the Schofields and the .44 Russians.

Does the writing match any of these? If so, which one?

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Not exact, but the top writing was close. opy*eUBaR< R being backwards was exact. As well as I can read 3-R[ R-backwards) pycckaR[R-backwards) opy*eUBaR< oa6pVIKa A.V6epTN NTanuR<. ALL R's are backwards. Some N's look backwards. I'm sorry for not having pictures. My father lives 3hrs away and is not computer savy. We are working on the problem. Pics soon to come Thank you for your help.

I think I will wait for the pictures.

Also, as far as my research has gone to date, I can't find any reference of S&W, Ludwig Lowe or Tula using letters in their serial numbers. All I've found are references to purely numeric serials.

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

]pic 1[/URL]

pic2

pic3

pic4

pic5

pic6

lastpic

Hope this helps. Let me know if there is anymore info needed.

radrennan737, First of all, I'm not offended, I've been around too long to get offended by honest people who are attempting to learn, and I think you are one of these. The info above from various posters is pretty much on the money. These are guns that are capable of being fired, it appears, with .44S&W Russian caliber ammo., so that lets' out Franklin Mint as the maker, as they can only make non-gun replicas, as the are not licensed by BATF as manufacturers of real firearms. While the barrels have some sort of Cryllic ( Russian) markings, I'm not too sure these marks are genuine and not an attempt to copy Russian looking stampings. More research by Russian scholars is necessary, Fred Datig could tell you in a minute, what it says, or doesn't say, and where these came from. Didn't you wonder why a Russian gun would have Russian barrel rib marks and on the same barrel have the caliber marked in English? Dead giveaway that these are copies of the third model S&W Russian model made up as replicas. Also, the close up pictures of the engraving now tell me these guns were not produced as period pieces in the middle east , The engraving is a typical modern copy of the New York style Nimschke engraving popular in the late 1800s. I'm leaning towards modern made copies, perhaps Italian or Russian, and the engraving has removed the proof marks indicating such. Perhaps Val Forgett, Navy Arms, or Walter Craig had their fingers in the pie on these guns. Tell us what the is history of how your father acquired these guns and any provenance you might know about. You stated they were "registered Schofields" but haven't explained where that nonmenclature orginated. Can you please enlighten us on that? I think you probably know now, from the above photos, that the differences between your guns and a real Schofields are distinctive and obvious to collectors. Schofields are also .45 caliber, not .44S&W Russian. Apparently the early info. you received on this pair was from a source that knew very little about S&Ws but were hoping to pass these guns off to the unwary at a high price. My suggestion of a no reserve auction was to get the market place to respond in an arena that sometimes brings high hammer prices from bidders that are not collectors, per se. Serious S&W collectors would pay very little for this pair, so there's not chance we are trying to steal these at an auction! Good Luck. Ed.

Clear close ups of the barrel rib markings, the serial number, the back of the cylinder and any other markings on the gun.
BTW, I don't think those grips are pearl. They look more like ivory (or a composite), but are too white for an old gun.

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

FWIW, My pair of "Uberti" Russians that I use for CAS have the same stamping on the top rib.

Looks like that's the answer - these are a pair of Uberti copies of the S&W 3rd model, made in Italy for Navy Arms. Proof marks are obliterated by the engraving, a common tactic when one intends to deceive! And the deceiver did not know a Schofield from a 3rd model Russian, and hoped the buyer would not either, so they were dubbed "Registered Schofields!"

radrennan737;
I had one of the excellent Uberti 3rd Model Russians and I can tell you this is exactly what you have. While it is, indeed, difficult to reproduce Cyrillic characters on a Roman keyboard, I was able to decipher enough of your transcription to recognize it as the inscription applied by Uberti. It transliterates approximately as "Treeya Russkaya oruzheniya fabrika A. Uberti Italiya" which means "Third Russian Model Made by A. Uberti Italy". Cool-looking set, but not Schofields.
Larry

Gentleman, first of all.... Thank you for taking the time to help me figure out if my father had something. In short, he has what he paid for.... to fake Schofields. We have figured through research that the pistols are worth about what he paid for them and now we will post them in a (NO-reserve auction.) Who wants guns you can't shoot. Ed and Larry, the Smith & Wesson family is proud. Thank you, and shootem straight. radrennan737, from Cape Coral, FL.

Nobody said that you can't shoot them, but they were intended to be display pieces. (and impressive ones, at that )
I wouldn't be ashamed to own them, but I would have to have inherited them as replicas aren't in my area of interest.

Maybe one of our barbeque or CASS guys would be interested. Very showy!!

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Have to second what Dean said: You CAN shoot them. .44 Russian ammo is available from several sources these days, and I can tell you I enjoyed the dickens outa mine! They're perfectly safe with modern smokeless cartridges, and you might even find you like 'em yourself! I recommend you try 'em out before you sell 'em !

Larry

There are just a couple of things that would make me hesitate to shoot them.
One would be that once you shoot them, they are no longer “as new, unfired” and thereby are somewhat devalued.
The other is, not knowing the “quality” of the engraving and gold inlay, I would worry about some of the inlay being jarred loose by the shock of firing.
Better to sell them and use some of the money to buy a plain one to shoot.

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

These would be desireable to the Cowboy Action Shooting community. Depending upon your asking price you would get a reponse. CASCITY.COM has a Schofield Forumwhich might be a good place to go. They also have a classified section.

SASS (Single Action Shooting Society) has a great classified section for members only.

ohhhhh 20 posts in...open mouth,insert foot

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO