S&W 38 Bridgeport Gun Implements reloading kit

It’s not often I get excited anymore regarding collectibles. You reach a point where you’ve seen a lot and most items found now are repeats.
However, I just stumbled upon an auction lot of antique reloading tools that is absolutely wonderful. I was targeting this very rare “Bridgeport 38 Smith & Wesson reloading kit” circa early 1880’s.
I had none in my collection and those that I have seen were either partial or in terrible condition. I had only some loose tools but never a complete kit or one in this condition.
As you can see from the photo the box is absolutely wonderful for being 140 years old and the tools and kit are literally unused.
It was found by the seller in an estate sale in the attic in a trunk.
I also found a small tag( see photo) marked “flints for guns” and noticed it was a made up tag from something else.
Turns out it’s an automotive receipt from July,1922. Suggests that this kit was in that trunk for over 100 years.

It’s been my experience that items in this condition are very often found stored, forgotten, in some storage and found by estate sales literally as new.

Just thought I’d share. It’s always fun to find stuff like this. Keeps us in touch with the collectible hobby.

Murph

Hi There,

Neat set of tools! When you get them, post pics with the tools
outside of the box so we can see them better.

It is hard to tell with nothing to scale the tools by, but the black
handled tool (I assume is a re-priming tool) looks too large for
.38 S&W (plus, it isn't illustrated on the label of the box).

Anyway thanks for sharing.

Cheers!
Webb

More photos

I actually already have the kit. It arrived yesterday. I’m working on other tools in the lot right now cleaning them up but will photo the set and post tomorrow when I get a chance.

The other tools are older bullet molds and tools from the Civil War and gun parts for cap & ball Colts. It really is a neat lot of stuff that was priced way low and poorly listed. I actually thought it was a box only from the seller posting. When it arrived and the box was heavy? It was like Christmas morning when I opened it. Wow! A complete kit? Wow! The seller didn’t even photo the tools. Just the box in the lot of other tools and parts.

I do agree that this kit did not come with the center primer. The next step up kit did so the original owner may have purchased that tool separately but it is a 38 cal primer and an original BGI tool.

Attached is a kit photo from their 1882 catalog on page 13. Notice the more expensive kit had the center punch priming tool for pistol calibers. Often seen for shotgun loading.


Murph

Close ups

Here are a few more photos before I stow the kit.
Notice the loading instructions under the lid? This is the first time in over 40 years looking that I have actually seen these instructions intact and legible. Very basic but also very interesting.
These kits were about $2.50 in 1882.

The black center primer tool looks to have been factory converted from a shotgun loader to pistol loader by pressing a reduced insert into the tool. First time again for me to actually see one of these.

It is the earlier kit pre-1887 having the outside lubricated bullet design in the mold cavity.

What is also extremely rare are the wood handled bullet plungers in mint condition still having 100% varnish on them.

It truly is an amazing survivor. Circa 1882-1886. So at least 136-140 years old.

I have several bullet molds for these early kits in 38 Colt, 38 S&W, 32 S&W, 44 Russian, etc but none compare to this one regarding condition. That’s exactly what the paint looked like gobbed on with a non-skid type surface.

Also, I never knew the center primer tool was painted black. Those few that I have seen were brown and rusted.

Murph

BMur, that is a great find. Thanks for posting.

All I can say is wow!

Hi There,


Extremely nice set!

"The black center primer tool looks to have been factory converted from a shotgun loader to pistol loader by pressing a reduced insert into the tool."

That's what confused me about that tool. I couldn't make out
there was a reducer in it.

"Also, I never knew the center primer tool was painted black. Those few that I have seen were brown and rusted."

I think you will find the paint is "Japan Black" which is a mixture
of varnish and lamp black. This was a common coating used on
tools up to the 1920's and 1930's.

I guess the original priming tool is the single handled red piece.
I can understand why the previous reloader obtained a more
functional re-priming tool.

Thanks for sharing!


Cheers!
Webb

Amazing condition and information. Quite the find. I have never seen the complete package before. Thank for the pictures.

Later tools

Here is just one example of a post 1887 BGI 32 Smith&Wesson bullet mold having the inside lubricated bullet design. It was at this time that BGI’s product line increased in available calibers that also included the 45 Schofield. What I wouldn’t give to just see one of those kits!
The obvious give away are the “Black” handles. My research supports these tools are post 1887 up to the early 1900’s when the kits were discontinued. Another victim of the smokeless era.


Murph

Great find, one of the most interesting reloading threads I've seen. I reload about 500 rounds/year of .38 S&W, but with modern equipment. Some of it (reduced loads) gets fired in my 1877 Baby Russian. I'd like to think that some prior owner of my revolver used one of these kits. Glad I have a turret press and carbide dies!

Reloading tools

I have absolutely no doubt your Baby Russian shot reloads In the 1800’s. Not only were reloading tools very popular, black powder cartridges did not last very long before they became unreliable. Therefore hand-loading was the simple and mandatory solution.

When we reference U.S. Army records from that exact period we know clearly that black powder loads had a average 2 year limit as viable ammo before a recorded breakdown occurred in the primer/powder/copper case mixture. Causing misfires and/or poor ignition.

The easiest solution was to simply reload. Not unlike using old stock first and before it expires. It must have been common knowledge back then. Even early commercial ammo was subject to the exact same limited timeline. So they obviously knew to use the black powder cartridge “before” it expired.

So you either bought a new box of ammo every 2 years or just continue to reload on a routine basis. With black powder if you store the powder, primers, shells, and lead separately they remain viable indefinitely. Put them together and the clock starts ticking. At least back then it did.
New loads in modern brass shells with modern primers would likely last a lot longer in proper storage but no way they don’t have a limited time. The clock is definitely ticking. Black powder is corrosive.

Murph

Finally, a reloading thread with equipment older than the Forum members. The Original "This is the Way We've Always Done It".

Very interesting, is the Bridgeport Company the original start of Lyman?

Interesting post, love the old loading tools. I do have couple comments regarding the comments on shelf life of ammo of the time and the corrosiveness of black powder. First, black powder itself is NOT corrosive but the residue from FIRED black powder is corrosive. The residue is extremely hygroscopic and is also contaminated with residue from the primers which adds to the problem. This can quickly rust guns and if the cases are to be re-used they need to be cleaned to remove all the residue lest they be damaged and rendered unsafe for use.

As to the shelf life of black powder loaded rifle and handgun ammo, the main issue was always the primers as the metallic cases normally did a good job of protecting the powder and primer from damage from exposure. Shotgun shells had the additional issue of the widespread use of paper hulls which were not very moisture resistant, exposing the powder and primer to possible damage as well as swelling and being difficult to chamber. There was a great deal of experimentation and development of different primer compounds from the mid 1800's on. Manufacturers put a lot of effort into research and testing to produce dependable primers with a good lifespan even under what were often poor storage conditions. Both civilian and military users wanted ammo that would be viable for a good period of time. Very important when you consider things like shipping time, storage and projected sales. Two years is simply an unacceptable lifespan for something as important as ammunition and reports of such a short lifespan would be likely to ruin a manufacturers reputation. I have never seen anything to indicate such a short lifespan for factory ammo being a common problem even after years of reading through such things as the International Ammunition Collectors journal and forums. and other published collector articles and research papers.

Reloading was fairly popular largely because it was easier (and less expensive) to put together and transport components than a similar quantity of factory ammo. For many civilian users it was a simple transition from muzzle loading arms to assembling cartridges. For the US military it was a way to stretch the tight budgets they were subjected to by a Congress that was loath to spend money on them. The old tool designs are a fascinating look at the past and I have collected a few myself to go with my ammunition collection. The ones shown in the original post are really nice!

Origin of reloading equipment

Engineer1911 said:

Finally, a reloading thread with equipment older than the Forum members. The Original "This is the Way We've Always Done It".

Very interesting, is the Bridgeport Company the original start of Lyman?

Click to expand...

Yeah, it’s an amazing thing really. You read and research the origins of reloading and what comes up constantly are “Military personnel” their ideas and surviving drawings that somehow were patented by Major Manufacturers? Hmmm. Nothing like taking advantage of veterans. Hand shake and a back slap while they make millions on your ideas.
The Ideal Company had it’s origin from Military vets. SGT Barlow was smart enough to patent his tools. I’m proud to say that! His tools were one of the best sellers and highly regarded among collectors as the most common sense tools made and it was his tools, his ideas, his sweat and labor, that eventually became part of the Lyman company.

Murph

Interestingly, equipment like this is still manufactured and in use. The Lee Classic Loader accomplishes the same thing as the Bridgeport kit. It’s $37 from Midway. Throw in a Lee .38 caliber mold for $34 and you can reload like it’s 1882 for $71! Adjusting for inflation (about a factor of 29.7), the $2.50 price has hardly changed.

Lee loaders

The older Lee loader kits are collectables now. Some calibers are pretty expensive. I remember when dealers would literally give them away at gun shows.

Murph

BMur said:

The older Lee loader kits are collectables now. Some calibers are pretty expensive. I remember when dealers would literally give them away at gun shows.

Murph

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Yes, it's amazing what some of those old kits bring now. I have a small collection of them (some of which I still use occasionally) and have bought, sold and traded Lee Loaders at gun shows. They are still popular, seems like quite a few people collect them like I do and are often searching for particular sets. Just about 2 weeks ago I picked up complete 12 and 20 ga loaders from a local shop. I know that they would sell at the show but I may have to keep them for my own collection!

desi2358 said:

Yes, it's amazing what some of those old kits bring now. I have a small collection of them (some of which I still use occasionally) and have bought, sold and traded Lee Loaders at gun shows. They are still popular, seems like quite a few people collect them like I do and are often searching for particular sets. Just about 2 weeks ago I picked up complete 12 and 20 ga loaders from a local shop. I know that they would sell at the show but I may have to keep them for my own collection!

Click to expand...

A few years ago, I helped the youngest son of a friend (19 or 20 years old) get started reloading and gave him a used Lee Loader in 2.5" 410. Along with about 200 410 cases and about 500 wads.

I started in 1979-1980 (age 23) with a LEE LOADER in 303 British, I believe it was $9.99! (Midway, now $36.99), a Hornady box of bullets was $5.99 (now $41.00/100), Primers $.89/100 (now $10.99/100), and a can of IMR 3031 was $7.99. (now $ 42.99) I had 40 empties from Winchester factory ammo (now unobtanium!). At about $140 currently to start, verses $25. I don't know if I would have started! It works out about equal to what I was making per hour, but that much expendable income is huge by comparison.

$2.50 in 1880's had to be huge! But on the other hand, what did you have for entertainment? No records, TV, or Movies! Just talking sweetly to a young lady that may or may not really like you!

I have a box of Peters 38 S&W my grandfather bought in May of 1926 for $3.58 (he wrote the date and price on it, because it was so expensive to shoot the gun that was given to him by a family friend (in the late teens). That was way more than a week's groceries for the family of 4) In the winter of 1936 or 37 ONE shot was fired and killed a rabbit. That litteraly kept dad's family from starving for the next 5 days! I have the gun and box of 49 rounds and consider them priceless!)

Ivan