I'm doing some research on the New Model 3 Target guns between serial number 2700 to 2899 (and possibly a few more). I recently found serial number 2823. It is drilled for a lanyard ring. The strange thing is, it has a another serial number on the frame under the left grip, 18,337. I found NM3 Target serial number 2795 and it has serial number 18356 stamped on the left side of the frame under the grip.

Does anyone else have a New Model 3 Target in this serial range with a second serial number under the grip?

How about a New Model 3 in 44 Russian in the 18,000 range?

Thanks

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Mark

Found another one in the serial range. It too is a New Model 3 Target with a second serial number under the grips, its 18,354. All 3 are blued. 2 are drilled for lanyard ring and the 3rd I don't know if it was. Looks like the original frames in the 18k range were rejected and reused as NM3 Targets. Its kind of odd that a target gun was drilled for a lanyard ring. Is there any way to see if the guns in the 18k range actually shipped from the factory?

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Mark

Hi There,


I am interested in your research but I cannot provide any help
myself (my NM#3's are in the very end range). Do you have
any pics showing this second serial number and would you be
willing to post them? I'm sure I'm not the only one who is
interested.


Cheers!
Webb

Mark, I'm curious to know if these 'targets' are .32-44, .38-44, .44 Russian or? I regret that I have no input to add.

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Mike Maher #283

Here are pictures of mine. The numbers match on the cylinder, barrel, and latch. That serial number matches to the 2 remaining numbers on the bottom of the frame. The lanyard hole has threads in it for some reason.

When I sent for a letter I included pictures and also mentioned the second serial number on the left side under the grips and the hole for the lanyard ring. At the time I did not know it was threaded. I only looked after finding the 3rd gun with these features.

Will add the info on the other guns later. Gotta pay for this hobby of mine.

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Mark

Whoever stamped the number under the grip used the same die stamp 3 next to the non factory cut for stock. So that assumed serial number was not stamped by the factory.
Very interesting. I wonder what the aftermarket stock looked like?

The Major Distributor could do most anything that the customer wanted done. Custom work was not uncommon. You can also see that the cut for stock was not done well enough for factory work. It’s also oversized.

After market shoulder stocks were also very common in the 1890’s. Often selling for $1. They go for a lot in the collectable world now often exceeding $1,000+.

They even had them for cheap spur trigger revolvers and also for the Colt lightning revolver. Very hard to find them today. You can find antique revolvers cut or drilled and threaded for them but the stocks are actually quite rare.

Some of these photo’d I’ve never actually seen first hand but I have seen several of the revolvers having long barrels and cut for shoulder stock. Some were later cut likely on special order from the Major Distributor and some factory cut. The variations are many.

Murph

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I too am interested in the New Model 3 Target as I own a 32-44 with a serial of 235. Would love to get hold of a letter but their a bit on the pricy side and I'm in the UK.

Letters being "a bit on the pricey side" may be a temporary situation---depending.

That upon which a temporary situation may exist depends upon to whom the gun was shipped----and of course that's an unknown until after you get the letter----odd how these things work out.

I decided letters were part of the package---frosting on the cake, and lettered all of them. One of them came along one day which ended up making the cost of a letter a joke. It spoke of a gun shipped gratis to Philip B. Sharpe----he who's credited with the development of the 357 Magnum cartridge---he who was also the recipient of Registered Magnum #2.

Come time to liquidate my collection, the difference between the purchase price of the gun and the selling price of the Sharpe gun would've paid for a whole big pile of letters.

The sad part of this tale is the fellow I bought the gun from had owned it for ten years--------and never lettered it. His comment upon learning of his misfortune was, "I guess that'll teach me!"

Ralph Tremaine

Ricky
That is fine looking MN3
$100 is a small fraction of it's value? ? ? ?

Hi Mark,

You certainly do have the knack for finding some Very Interesting NM#3 Revolvers...Congrats!!

As to your inquiry about the Frame being threaded for a Lanyard Ring...All of the S&W Factory-Installed Lanyard Rings of that era were threaded into the Frame rather than drilled & pinned as in later years!! If shipped as such...The Serial Numbers were also relocated as your Frame shows even though the Center (8&2) of the Ser. No. are missing given it had the Frame cut for a Shoulder Stock after it left the factory!!

I also find it somewhat interesting...Given the Factory Letter notes it being shipped with the somewhat Scarce Lyman Ivory Bar Rear Sight...It makes no mention that it originally shipped with a Lanyard Ring with is clearly evident it did given the Relocated Serial Number...Hmmm!!

I've also attached a Photo of the style of Lanyard Ring it most likely had before it was removed to cut the Frame for the Stock..Also take note it has the Serial Number relocated sideways like Yours has as well!!

As to the Numbers stamped on the Inside Grip Frame...Very sorry I'm unable to help as I've never crossed paths with any NM#3 Revolvers stamped in that manner in all the years I've been collecting NM#3s!! I am hoping though some more will come forward having Revolvers stamped in that manner as I'm very interested in what shakes out with this oddity...Must be something to it given you now have found yet a 3rd one stamped in that manner as well!!

Attached Images

S&W NM #3 Lanyard Ring with Relocated Ser. No. (Butt View Close-Up) .jpg (46.4 KB, 15 views)

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Masterpiece

In looking at the photos of the groove cut in the bottom of the grip frame and the description of the "threaded lanyard ring hole" I was wondering if this one might have been modified to accommodate this type of shoulder stock...
(posted by BMur above).
The threaded hole would certainly seem to be required for the knurled knob on the bottom of the grip frame in the drawing of the stock.
I don't know that much about these early revolvers, but that is the thought that occurred to me.
I'm probably wrong, but I thought I'd put it out there for consideration....

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

Here is the second revolver I found with some of the same features. Is sold in 2012 and has a factory letter too. Its serial number 2795. The auction description says the serial number 2795 is on the cylinder, barrel, the barrel latch, and on the underside of the grip frame. It also states The left side of the grip frame is marked "18356". There is only 1 picture of the gun from the side. There is no mention of a factory swivel or how the serial number was applied on the bottom of the frame. The auction description or the letter does not say anything about a swivel. The letter reads:

We have researched your Smith and Wesson New Model No. 3 Target, caliber 38-44 S&W Gallery, revolver in company records which indicate your handgun, with serial number 2795, was shipped from our factory on December 24, 1895, and delivered to Winchester Repeating Arms Co., New Haven CT. The records indicate that this handgun was shipped with a 6.5 inch barrel, adjustable rear target sight, blue finish, checkered black hard rubber grips.

Here is the Auction Link:

Smith & Wesson S&W .38-44 -- Model 3 Target Single Action Revolver Antique | Lock, Stock & Barrel

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NM3 2795 Picture - 5 15 24.jpg (223.5 KB, 44 views)

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Mark

Here is the 3rd gun, only 7 serial numbers away from mine. It has serial number 2816 that is found on the frame, barrel, latch, and cylinder. Even though it has been drilled for the lanyard ring, there is no wear from a ring. There are marks on the bottom of the frame but they don't look consistent with the marks I have seen from a lanyard ring. The ring was removed a long time ago. I emailed the owner and they confirmed that there is a serial number on the left side of the frame, number 18,354

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	32-44 Serial 2816 Bottom of frame - 5 15 24.jpg (52.1 KB, 20 views)
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	32-44 Serial 2816 Right side of gun - 5 15 24.jpg (49.2 KB, 16 views)

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Mark

Thanks Masterpiece. I don't have a NM3 with a lanyard ring installed. I didn't know how they did it

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Mark

That would probably have worked on this gun. Mine actually has the hole in the top of the back strap so the gun accepts the standard Smith and Wesson stock. Here it is shown with the short tang stock

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Mark

Shame on me. I was focused on the factory letter. I agree, there was a “factory” lanyard originally intended for this NM3 but likely never happened. That supports the matching die stamp 3 on both sets of numbers was actually stamped by the factory. Very odd.

Mark, do the others have a missing lanyard also? I don’t think I have ever seen a target gun with a factory lanyard. A target NM3 isn’t a gun intended to be holstered. It’s possible that this gun was pulled from a special order run with a lanyard that didn’t go through and subsequently sold as a Target variation.

The number under the grip frame was stamped quickly, lightly, and not very uniformed almost like it was in limbo for a while after a failed contract having lanyard rings. That’s just my opinion but it would fill in the blank as to why it wasn’t recorded as having one.

It would also answer why the serial number was stamped on the butt like that. There was probably a blank there so they stamped the serial number as though a lanyard existed instead of stamping over the blank. That fits.

I also think the machined boss(hole) on the backstrap was part of the machine work on the butt. Non factory work.

Murph

Posts 12 and 13 are for the other guns like mine. One for sure was machined for a factory lanyard and has the cross serial number like mine. The other does not have a picture of the bottom of the frame, but has the second serial number like mine, in the same range.

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Mark

It would be interesting to see the other one. The second example has a non factory screw installed where “the blank” would be. I’d like to see what the blank looks like.
Special order guns often bring oddities to machine work. This reminds me of the 9” barrel revolving rifle that lettered as a special order. The factory moved the rear sight and blanked the rear sight cut out and “did not” center the barrel address stamp because they did not want to stamp over the blank.( my opinion) It’s likely the same thing applies here. Blanks sometimes fall out over time because they are normally machine pressed in place. Pressing a blank in place then stamping over it could loosen it. Which in your case would have taken some of the serial number with it if it was stamped like an example without a lanyard. You follow me?

Murph

I submitted a letter request for serial number 18,337. Will see what the historians say about that serial number

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Mark

Murph,

While there's always a remote possibility the Screw installed in place of the Factory Lanyard Ring on Mark's NM#3 Tgt. with Ser. No. 2816 may not be absolutely correct...Blanks (As you are referring them to)..."Were" Screws on S&W Revolvers of that era!!

They were not Pressed-In Slugs as seen on Later Revolvers that were drilled straight through & sometimes plugged when removed...Not threaded as the Revolvers of that era were if a Lanyard Ring was either not Factory-Installed...Or removed as to not damage the threads if one chose to install a Lanyard Ring at a later date!!

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Masterpiece

Is serial number 2816 lettered? If so does it letter with a lanyard? I’ll bet it doesn’t.

I think these guns were originally numbered in the 18,000 serial number range, pulled to install lanyards as part of a contract, the machinist soft stamped the number on the grip frame, removed the number on the butt, machined them all for lanyards. Then the contract didn’t go through or perhaps they accidentally machined too many so they sat in a pile together and some time later became target guns which required the blank installed and diagonal serial number stamp. The original serial number stamped under the grip frame was overlooked or ignored.

The letter request should come up with No records found.

*** Threaded bosses for lanyards normally don’t thread all the way to the bottom. There is normally a gap. If the factory installed a threaded blank it would be very clean work and flush mounted. Just like the main spring adjustment screw. I’m not seeing a screw on the Winchester shipped gun but the photo doesn’t clearly show the bottom of the gun. No reason for a lanyard on a target gun. Target sights can’t be holstered without being damaged.

Murph

Serial number 2816 is not lettered.

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Mark

Murph,

As to the above quote...That isn't the way the threaded hole was filled on S&W Revolvers of that era...They installed a Screw very close to the one on Mark's Revolver with the Head protruding above the Frame...Not "Flush" with it!!

Reason I made mention earlier there was a remote possibility his may not be the "Exact" Type Screw they used is due to the fact the angle at which the Photo was taken of the Screw's Head it's hard get a good read on it...Although in my opinion it's very close if it isn't correct!!

Edit: Please take note to the Photo I've attached to compare a known Orig. Filler Screw to the Filler Screw Photo on Mark's Revolver from Post 13...You'll see they're very close, if not nearly identical...Hope this helps!!

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	S&W NM#3 .32-.44 Target 6.5-Inch Barrel Blue Finish Ser.No. 2816 Shipped (Relocated Butt Ser. N.jpg (80.2 KB, 15 views)
	S&W NM#3 Target Lanyard Hole Filler Screw (Screw Close-Up View) .jpg (54.8 KB, 8 views)

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Masterpiece

Here is a side view picture of the lanyard filler screw of 2816.

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32-44 Lanyard Filler Screw - 5 16 24.jpg (11.0 KB, 21 views)

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Mark

Mark,
Thanks for posting that photo. That photo clearly shows that the head of the screw is countersunk into the frame. The threads do not meet the flat. In other words it’s not threaded all the way to the end of the boss.

That’s what I would expect from machining in the late 1890’s. The flush dome screw was way obsolete by the time your gun was shipped.
Photo 1 shows what the proper machined threaded blank should look like. The head of the screw is countersunk into the frame.

The only domed screw blanks I’ve ever seen that were claimed factory legit are from very early production and even those I honestly doubt are factory because that method does not meet basic machining styles of that era. They do not look like clean machine work. They look like Bubba installed them.

I guarantee that if you were to remove that threaded blank you would see what I posted in photo 2. Which means the boss is countersunk to except the head below the deck or flat. That was the basic machining technique commonly used during that period.

I couldn’t see that in your first photo.

You can also clearly see from your photo that the main spring adjustment screw was machined exactly the same.

So that’s most definitely a factory installed blank.

It also clearly supports that this gun left the factory with that blank and therefore the records are correct. It was machined for one at the factory but never received one prior to shipping. My theory fits.


Murph

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