I'm trying to locate a Pre Model 10 M&P with a ship date in 1949. Does anyone know the serial number range for that year?

Serial numbers between about C45000 and C95000 probably shipped in 1949. But there can't be a hard and fast rule about this because S&W did not ship guns in serial number order, and they did not keep records of actual assembly date.

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David Wilson

Thanks. My choices sre C58XXX and C 189XXX so, I'll go with the lower number and get the gun lettered.

There's a guy selling a pre model 10 with a serial # C11437X. He claims he can tell the frame was made in 1949 by, "Research of available S&W history, little nuances of this particular revolver pretty much sets that date as being accurate. As you do not have this revolver in your hands it would be hard for you to research it in depth as we have."

Does this make sense?

Walk away. He's saying, "Trust me because I'm the expert."

A real expert would tell you exactly what "nuances" he is talking about because he would not be afraid of a discussion of the points.

Bear in mind that in S&Wland, the magic date is the shipping date. Obviously a gun's parts had to be manufactured before it was shipped, but there are no records of manufacturing dates.

Even if this seller proved me wrong by producing a photograph of this frame lying on the front page of a 1949 newspaper, I wouldn't buy from him just because his tone is so patronizing.

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David Wilson

Well, that's what got me. He said he couldn't say when it shipped or was assembled, but was positively sure when the FRAME was made. A very disappointing "expert".


Sooooooo back to the C58XXX gun. I figure it's the best chance, even if it doesn't pan out.

Now I am if my .38 special 4 inch Pre 10 Hand Ejector 5 screw is really 1949 shipped.
On the bottom of the grip where I first look, is C 714xx

Then on the back strap is 15651 I think this may be an armors number from some PD ?

Inside the yoke is 17234 and G 3 17234 again inside the crane on the frame. I found out these are assembly numbers.
Then 714xx one the bottom of the barrel flat above the ejector when closed.

Any information would be welcomed.
Thanks,
Steve

[IMG][/IMG]

Babaloo - in reference to your C189XXX that you listed - I have a 5" M & P that is C1847XX that I posted when I got it and was told that it dated to 1952 - which was fine as that's the year I was born. I'm sure that info doesn't help you much but just thought I'd post it as your C189XXX should be after 1952???

I show one higher SN and one lower SN than C189XXX, and I'd interpolate between their shipping dates to about 7/52. No guarantees, however, as I also show another one with a lower SN as shipping in mid-1953.

Need help identifying a S&W .38 special ctg
SN is 4632xx

Without a letter prefix to the SN, your M&P would have likely shipped in 1923-24.

The number on the bottom of the butt starting with C is the serial number; you know that. The five-digit number on the backstrap is most likely a police officer's shield number; I'd put some money on NYPD, since they required it in exactly that place (mostly; some were marked awkwardly on the butt next to the serial), and because their guns were the officer's and not the department's property, there are quite a few floating around in the collectors' market.

I am new to the S&W forum. I will appreciate any expertise you can provide.
I recently acquired a .38 special and cannot identify whether it is pre 10 or 36 model. The serial number is C149596. The serial number is stamped on the handle, barrel and cylinder. There are numbers on the yoke stem in two lines, 27 on the first line and 7324B. From my research, I believe it is a pre-model number (10 or 36?). I am attaching pictures.
I called S&W and they could only tell me that the C in the serial indicates that it could be a 1948 to 1951 model.
Here's what I know about it:
Nickle plated - without original grips
Gold, checkered hammer and cylinder release
Gold, knurled trigger
2" barrel
Double action
6 shot
Square butt
5 screw
Half moon single site
Hand extractor with rod knob
Pinned barrel
Post-war Made in USA mark
Non-recessed cylinders
Looks like a round firing pin
Two line S&W with 38S&W SPC CTG on barrel

Attached Images

	IMG_4395.jpg (32.5 KB, 407 views)
	IMG_4402.jpg (59.5 KB, 416 views)
	IMG_4403.jpg (75.9 KB, 296 views)
	IMG_4406.jpg (88.4 KB, 300 views)
	IMG_4401.jpg (68.1 KB, 300 views)

Two features you describe clearly make this a K-frame .38 Military & Police (pre-model 10) . . . being a six shot and having a "C" prefix serial number. A pre-36 would be five shot and likely a "J" prefix s/n.

Great classic S&W revolver . . .

Russ

Russ,
Thank you this information. I can now continue my research on the pre 10. I appreciate your help.

C149596 would most likely have shipped in April, 1951. What you have is a prettied-up M&P snubbie (K-frame), the prettying-up almost certainly done outside the S&W factory. The grips are interesting. I don't think they are ivory, but they could be.

Thank you, DWalt. The grips remind me of Bakelite, a popular 1950's hard plastic. I don't think they are ivory, either. I am not an expert, but I don't think that ivory yellows to the color of thess grips. I appreciate your help!

I just sold c56xxx that shipped July of 49. I still have c58xxx that shipped May of 49.

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No life story has happy end.

DWalt, I've searched numerous sites to get an idea of the ship date for this gun. Do you mind if I ask what reference you used for the April 1951 date? I may want to use it for another S&W gun I have. Again, I appreciate your expertise. Thank you!

I use my own data base, compiled as I find verified information from various places. To the best of my knowledge there is no readily available SN reference source for most M&Ps, other than the serial number range by year in SCSW.

Many of us create such a data base for particular models of interest. DWalt has an excellent one for several models . . . including yours . . . and others will chime in when we can add to the available information.

Put us to the test by posting your other example. I would suggest starting a new thread for it so it doesn't get lost.

Russ

Thank you again, DWalt. You and others on this thread have offered fabulous information. I will start my own thread, since now, I know I'm not doing this exactly right.

I'm new to the Forum.
Good friend...born in 1954 is looking for a pre model 10 from that year.
Wondered if anyone could steer me toward a serial number range for that year and then the best place to look for one online.
Gunbroker seems to have quite a few, but not so many pre model 10 vintage.
Thanks
KC

Hello, welcome to the forum.

The Standard Catalog starts 1954 with serial number C 277555, so that gives you a starting point. Unfortunately, it doesn't give an end point for that year, but just up to C 402923 for 1954-56 (sometime the company records didn't allow more precise info). But you could extrapolate roughly, and likely be safe with any gun below C 300000. There are irregularities and guns sometimes shipped quite some time after the assumed date of manufacture (and there are no records of that for us; history letters only give us shipping dates), so nothing is ever 100% unless your friend finds a gun that's already lettered.

As for a source, I only buy local or on Gunbroker, which really has the largest selection, so I don't have other recommendations. You could post a WTB in this forum. If you check GB, don't just search for pre-Model 10, but also Model 10 and M&P and even Model 1905 4th change; people don't use labels consistently.

Absalom answered before I finished writing, but I'll go ahead and post anyway since my thoughts pretty much back up what he said.

There is no hard and fast rule about serial numbers, but most K-frame .38s with serial numbers between C275000 and C315000 seem to have shipped in 1954. That includes not only the Pre-10s, but some Airweight models as well. But a lower serial number might have shipped as late as 1954 if the item spent a lot of time in S&W's vault before being pulled for delivery. And some items in the serial range I offered might not have shipped until 1955 or even later if they got stuck on a back shelf. S&W had no policy that required them to ship in serial number order.

If Gunbroker isn't working for you, you could always place a WTB note in the Classifieds on this forum.

Speaking of which, welcome to the Forum.

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David Wilson

HOWDY YA'LL ... NEW TO THE FORUM ... WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE ANY HELP / INFO ... I HAVE WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE A MODEL 10 OR PRE 10 NOT SURE ... ON RIGHT SIDE OF BARREL HAS ... 38 S. & W. CTG ... SERIAL # 816XX ON BOTTOM OF BUTT ... INSIDE YOKE HAS # 88511 ... NO OTHER MARKINGS OF MODEL # ... JUST SMITH & WESSON ON LEFT SIDE OF BARREL ... 4" BLUED 5 SHOT ... ANY HELP GREATLY APPRECIATED ...
THANKS .. COWBOYUP57 ....

Please don't type in all caps, it's distracting and hard to read. Please see the sticky at the top of the forum for the information needed to identify your revolver. And several clear pictures are always helpful.

Because you say this has five chambers and is marked .38 S&W CTG (CTG=Cartridge), your revolver is definitely not a model 10 or pre model 10 which were all six shooters. It may be what is called a "break-top," which means it sort of folds in half to eject the cartridges and to reload.

816XX on the butt is the serial number, the others are assembly numbers used to keep parts together during the manufacturing process. If your revolver has an exposed hammer and my previous guesses are correct, then you could have a .38 Double Action 2nd Model. The serial number range for this model is 4001-119000, c. 1880-1884. Again, pictures and more information are necessary for a correct identification.

I stress that I'm guessing here. Other people with more knowledge may give you better answers.

SORRY .... Did not intend to PO anybody using all caps .. i guess some people still got better eyes than me ... first .. i have a lemon squeezer that is A Top Break ... but this is not a top break ... cylinder swings out like all S&W Revolvers & it is a 5 shot .. it has a straight bbl not tapered .. but front sight is tapered & milled ... rear sight is just a groove on top of frame .. i will try & see if i can upload photos ... better on a Horse .. than I am on a dadblasted computer ... But THANK YOU ... for your reply Sir ...

No worries. I'm sorry, but I'm unable to come up with a revolver chambered in .38 S&W with a straight 4" barrel, five chambers, and a tapered front sight. The .38 Regulation Police (postwar) is a five shot, 4" barrel, .38 S&W CTG but the picture in the S&W Catalog shows a half round front sight. Google .38 Regulation Police Postwar Pictures and see if there's anything there that looks like your revolver. Some of the pictures I found using those search terms do show a tapered front sight.

Good Luck.

Sounds like a pre Model 33 Regulation Police. These eventually got ramp front sights.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

THANKS .... I appreciate your response & Your Time Served in Uniform ... We Need More People LIKE YOU .... COWBOYUP57 ..

Big Thanks to Absalom and David Wilson for your help.

Certainly gives me a starting place for serial numbers and I'll keep my eye on gunbroker with all of those tags suggested.

KC

MR. BABALOOIE .... My Apologies To YOU .... For Jumping in on Your Thread ...

Was My First Time on Forum & I AM Still Figuring Out How IT All Works ... But I Got Great Info From Members HONDO 44 & DWalt

Good Luck To You SIR ... & Thanks For Your Time in UNIFORM ...

COWBOYUP57 ...

Again most likely your wrong.

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Don Mundell

That was over six years ago. Don't let it bother you.

FYI I did get a gun that shipped in 1949. It's in the safe right now.

Here's the info:

Pre-Model 10, Blue, 4 in. , SN C58781


I just acquired a pre model 10 serial # S867731. Can anyone help me with year?

See here:
Please help

I'm assuming you posted here first and then realized you needed to start your own thread. Good move!

Edit: Yep! Checked. This one was posted first. Anyway, your answers are in the other thread.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Here is my input on using serial numbers to date a gun.

C113082 shipped in 9/50
C155209 shipped in 5/50

Let the buyer beware.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065