1875 Smith & Wesson Schofield “SCREWDRIVERS”??

I try to dedicate a few hours each week to reading old Military Records.
I found something I had never heard of before.
EACH SCHOFIELD REVOLVER WAS SHIPPED WITH A SCREWDRIVER “FROM THE FACTORY”.

Each crate contained 50 Schofield revolvers, 50 screwdrivers, extra parts, etc

I was wondering if anyone can enlighten me and tell the forum what the “Factory shipped Schofield screwdrivers” actually looked like???

The photos attached are only part of my research of screwdrivers that date to that period. They definitely had wood handles but That’s all I can prove.

We are talking about over 8000 screwdrivers and I have no clue what they looked like.

Murph

Kit?

Some of the Major auction houses list this as a Schofield screwdriver. I’m not a believer since the Military records are from 1875 when the first bulk shipment of 3000 Schofield revolvers took place. This 1881 patent screwdriver is several years after the gun was discontinued.

Murph

Hi There,


I consulted GUN TOOLS Their History and Identification by
Shaffer, Rutledge and Dorsey and they suggest the following
as the probable Schofield screwdriver.


Cheers!
Webb

Screwdriver

Thanks for that info Webb.
Looking at the same period Colt tool photo’d it does follow the same theme.
Seems to stimulate more questions though;

Most military tools are stamped US (photos)

Also, there were at least 8,000+ of these screwdrivers factory produced. Listed as rare in your post. They really shouldn’t be rare with that many produced. It’s not an item that would be tossed or discarded even today they should show up in a tool box now and again.

I also have a problem with Smith & Wesson following a Colt tool theme. Even their reloading tools are nothing like any other.

Just thinking out loud. Lots of research puts you in this mindset. To prove your position things have to fit just so or the research continues.

Murph

wlw-19958 said:

Hi There,


I consulted GUN TOOLS Their History and Identification by
Shaffer, Rutledge and Dorsey and they suggest the following
as the probable Schofield screwdriver.


Cheers!
Webb

Click to expand...

This one gets my vote

Hi There,

BMur said:

Thanks for that info Webb.
Looking at the same period Colt tool photo’d it does follow the same theme.
Seems to stimulate more questions though;

Most military tools are stamped US (photos)

Also, there were at least 8,000+ of these screwdrivers factory produced. Listed as rare in your post. They really shouldn’t be rare with that many produced. It’s not an item that would be tossed or discarded even today they should show up in a tool box now and again.

I also have a problem with Smith & Wesson following a Colt tool theme. Even their reloading tools are nothing like any other.

Just thinking out loud. Lots of research puts you in this mindset. To prove your position things have to fit just so or the research continues.

Murph

Click to expand...

I agree that if 8,000 of these screwdrivers were supplied with
the Schofields, there should be more of them around. Another
possible revolver these "L" shaped screwdrivers were for are
the 1,000 American .44s the Army bought in 1871. The price
charged to the Army was 15 cents (where the flat "L" shaped
screwdrivers made by Colt were priced at 10 cents).

As to the absents of "US" on the tools, during the mid 1800's
and later the "US" was usually applied to tools made at the
Springfield Armory. Tools made by private suppliers didn't
usually have the "US" until the 1920's and later when it was
specified in the contracts (along with the Specification Number
stamped on them too). I have most of the tools in your pics
(except the "L" tools which are various in pattern and size).

If these are the ones S&W supplied, they don't exactly follow
the Colt pattern and are made with greater effort in machining
and finishing. Plus, for 15 cents, what do you expect? Most of
the screwdrivers S&W supplied to civilians were the hollow
brass handled type with a set of interchangeable blades that
cost back then from $1.00 to $1.25 depending on the number
and the recipient buying them

In the 1870's, the general thinking in the Army was that the
"average" soldier didn't posses the "smarts" to take apart the
S&W's and put them back together correctly. It was the res-
ponsibility of the company 1st Sargent to carry the screw-
drivers and the Privates would apply to him for permission to
take-down their issued revolver for cleaning and he would sup
ply the screwdriver. It isn't clear to me whether he did the
work or he just gave the soldier "permission" to do it.


Cheers!
Webb

US stamp

It’s just the marbles rolling around on my end. I’ve seen so many reloading tools stamped US that are definitely legit. I’ve also seen the Colt screwdrivers with US stamped on them. You would think any military screwdriver would have been “on occasion at least” stamped.

Often decisions in the Military are made based on an individual’s talents. Being mechanically inclined in the 1880’s really isn’t a stretch. These black powder guns required disassembly in order to be thoroughly cleaned. Chain of command was also applicable to NCO’s. I have no memory of NCO’s doing the dirty work. Once you are rated you supervise the work performed for the most part but it wasn’t a matter of asking. It was more of a regimental chore. In other words you were taught how to do it right and expected to be able to perform the task thereafter.

One thing about the Military that I remember the most was the amount of responsibility you were given and never judged based on your level of education. That perception seems only to be common in civilian life.

Murph

Hi There,

BMur said:

It’s just the marbles rolling around on my end. I’ve seen so many reloading tools stamped US that are definitely legit. I’ve also seen the Colt screwdrivers with US stamped on them. You would think any military screwdriver would have been “on occasion at least” stamped.

Often decisions in the Military are made based on an individual’s talents. Being mechanically inclined in the 1880’s really isn’t a stretch. These black powder guns required disassembly in order to be thoroughly cleaned. Chain of command was also applicable to NCO’s. I have no memory of NCO’s doing the dirty work. Once you are rated you supervise the work performed for the most part but it wasn’t a matter of asking. It was more of a regimental chore. In other words you were taught how to do it right and expected to be able to perform the task thereafter.

One thing about the Military that I remember the most was the amount of responsibility you were given and never judged based on your level of education. That perception seems only to be common in civilian life.

Murph

Click to expand...

Well, I have two 1855 mainspring vises in my collection and
one isn't marked with the "US." Reading through the GUN
TOOLS Their History and Identification one notices many
tools of the 19th century were not marked with the "US" des-
ignation. Sometimes marks were removed when tools were
refinished in the process of converting them. One example
are the tools issued during the Civil War that Springfield re-
purposed (like cutting the end out of the square nipple wrench
to change it into a mainspring clamp). So, standards in re-
spects to the "US" stamped on tools was not a priority.

Also, one should remember that many of the recruits of the
late 19th century were poor immigrants; some didn't even
speak English and this lead to the Army's demeaning atti-
tude towards the Privates.

There was a major restructuring of the Army and its deport-
ment towards it recruits in the 1895 to 1903 period. One of
the Generals in support of this restructuring was Gen. John
Schofield (Major George W. Schofield's older brother).


Cheers!
Webb

For what it is worth, here is a Baby Russian multi-tool.

Books

Research photos

I was looking through some of my previous research materials and found a Smith & Wesson Company catalog dated 1876. You can see Books Baby Russian and accompanying factory tool.

What’s more interesting to me is photo 2. Sure looks like a wood handle screwdriver to me. This clearly proves that Smith & Wesson embraced the wood handle screw driver at the exact same time the Schofield revolvers were being shipped to the U.S. Army.

Very interesting looking screwdriver. I apologize but the photo quality is as good as it’s going to get. Very old faded catalog.


Murph

Hi There,



It isn't a very good picture and it is possible the screwdriver was
supplied by the distributor (though the wiping rod does look like
the one that is attributed to S&W).

The one in the catalog picture might be this one patented by C.
D. Leet (who made cartridges for S&W). This is the hollow brass
handle one that used interchangeable blades that S&W supplied
for a fee (though it is purported that later these were supplied
for free).


Cheers!
Webb

Patent reference

Great patent reference Webb. Definitely looks very similar to the catalog drawing.
The catalog reference is from Smith & Wesson to various Distributors so the items in the photos are what was provided by the company.
They likely sub contracted that screwdriver manufacture. The association is definite with this catalog reference. It’s not a theory and dates to 1876.

Murph

Hi There,

BMur said:

Great patent reference Webb. Definitely looks very similar to the catalog drawing.
The catalog reference is from Smith & Wesson to various Distributors so the items in the photos are what was provided by the company.
They likely sub contracted that screwdriver manufacture. The association is definite with this catalog reference. It’s not a theory and dates to 1876.

Murph

Click to expand...

It was my understanding that C. D. Leet Cartridge Co. made
these for S&W. He continued to make them for S&W even
after Leet sold his cartridge company to Marcellus Hartley
(owner of the Union Metallic Cartridge Company). He even
oversaw the movement of the equipment and set-up in the
UMCC facility.


Cheers!
Webb

Having never seen nor heard of the "Schofield" screwdriver, my interest is piqued. Please post your reference (a page number would be nice too) for "EACH SCHOFIELD REVOLVER WAS SHIPPED WITH A SCREWDRIVER “FROM THE FACTORY”." I know a few Schofield collectors that would love to have that reference.

Hi There,

mmaher94087 said:

Having never seen nor heard of the "Schofield" screwdriver, my interest is piqued. Please post your reference (a page number would be nice too) for "EACH SCHOFIELD REVOLVER WAS SHIPPED WITH A SCREWDRIVER “FROM THE FACTORY”." I know a few Schofield collectors that would love to have that reference.

Click to expand...

I do not have a reference to show but it was standard proce-
dure to supply "appendages" with each firearm the US Army
purchased. This was usually a screw driver tool and a wiping
rod. Perhaps Murph can supply a reference.


Cheers!
Webb

Another location

I want one too Mike,

Sorry gents it will have to wait until I return to that location. I’m away right now.
I will post the exact reference with photos when I return in a few days. I know exactly where I left it.

From memory( don’t laugh I’m old)
It’s from an 1875 Military Maintenance manual. The 1874 manual is a common reference but the 1875 reference is not. The 1874 reference refers to the Schofield revolver being in trials only.

However, the 1875 reference details the Schofield shipping crate in exact dimensions which was news to me. Also 50 guns in each crate along with 50 screwdrivers, several spare main and trigger springs. Can’t recall anything else. You will be able to read it yourself. I will post a photo.

So that’s 60 crates, 3000 Model 1 Schofields, and 3000 screwdrivers. Simple math.

I have not yet reached the later Model 2 Schofield shipments so I’m assuming those also followed the Model 1 shipments. Assuming they did we can Add those and you have well over 8000 screwdrivers. To me that’s a big number.

With this latest catalog reference and Webbs kind patent addition it sure supports that design was the likely candidate for the Schofield contract. It was likely a very basic model but followed that design. It makes sense to me.

Murph

Military Records

I had the wife text me photos.
You can actually find reprints of this document if you search the internet.

Murph

Have you confirmed the revolvers were shipped from the factory in crates of 50. Or did the army procurement division make up the crates?

Inspection procedures

The document is a very lengthy “inspection procedure” upon receipt of firearms. It includes the Colt revolvers and Gatling guns. The various arsenals/outposts would open the crates upon receipt from the Springfield Arsenal and follow this procedure to confirm its contents by Talley and that each gun is/was properly produced and inspected. It also lists prices for each replacement part in detail.

If you are suggesting that the guns were received at Springfield in different crates, then repacked into crates again( without being inspected as required by this document then inspected upon receipt in new crates at each Fort/remote outpost? That’s pretty hard to believe. Once the crates were opened the procedure becomes applicable and “required”.

The cost and time consumption would be unjustified to perform this procedure twice and a ridiculous waste of time. Especially since there was a war going on and several documents that I’ve read reveal dire need of these guns in the field.

This is the reason for this document. To provide a detailed procedure for each outpost so “when they opened the crates” they would know exactly what to expect in detail and to report back if lacking or molested in any way.

It’s not just a Military invoice. It lists in detail where inspection marks are located on each firearm, material quality, etc etc. The document clearly reveals and initial inspection of each of the items upon receipt from the manufacturer that packed the crate with its contents.

We can believe anything we want to. It’s obvious to me after reading the document. There would be no reason or justification for having this procedure if the Springfield Armory opened the crates from Smith & Wesson. The detailed inspection would have been performed right at that time. A subsequent shipment in new crates would have only required a Talley of its contents.


Murph

Thanks, Murph, interesting document. I wonder how faithful the actual crates and packing were to what was published.

I heard that Schoefield's were shipped in 12-gun crates from Smith & Wesson to the Springfield Armory. If that is true, then the revolvers would need to be repacked, and the "appendages" added to the 50-gun crate. I wonder what the screwdriver actually looked like.