We're looking for some help identifying what might be a model 1 or old old russian 44 s&w handgun. Across the top of the barrel it says smith and wesson springfield mass usa pat july 10 060. january 17. feb 17. july 11. 65 aug. 24.69. US. On the bottom of the grip is says 1827. Is this the serial number? My friend inherited this when his great uncle passed. He's interested in the value of the gun and when it was made, ect. It's in great shape.
I don't know how to post pictures here but they are available. Thank you for any help you can offer.

We're looking for some help identifying what might be a model 1 or old old russian 44 s&w handgun. Across the top of the barrel it says smith and wesson springfield mass usa pat july 10 060. january 17. feb 17. july 11. 65 aug. 24.69. US. On the bottom of the grip is says 1827. Is this the serial number? My friend inherited this when his great uncle passed. He's interested in the value of the gun and when it was made, ect. It's in great shape.
I don't know how to post pictures here but they are available. Thank you for any help you can offer.

It's not an Old Old Russian, It's a 1st model US American in .44 S&W American caliber ( unless someone has altered something since it left the US Army). The number on the butt is the serial number, and it should also be on the back side of the right hand grip panel, if they are original to the gun. No other numbers are on the gun, however there should be an assembly code of usually two digits, or a letter and a digit, on the left side of the grip frame, on the back of the cylinder and on the rear of the barrel. These should all match. The gun is too early to have been chambered for the S&W Russian cartridge, and is much more valuable than an Old Old Russian model, as the gun was part of S&Ws first US military contract. Ed.

Thanks Ed. We took the grips off and the right hand grip panel has 1767 stamped on it. The right side of the grip frame has X4 stamped along with X4 on the back of the cylinder. Can't get to the back end of the barrel, too chicken to take it down farther. We're not gunsmiths and don't want to break something. A 44 mag won't fit into the cylinder. Guess the 44 S&W is different than the 44 mag. A 41 mag fits nice though. Wish I could post some pictures. I'm new to the forum and computer challenged.

djc. Here is a relic of what it sounds like what you have with a cut back barrel?

It's close, but this gun has an 8 inch barrel. It's breaks open like yours. How did you load this picture?

Actually feralmerril doing a stare and compare the only difference between the guns is the barrel length. What is your gun? Thanks for the help.

Mine is about a 2nd year american. Serial #4730. According to the book made probley in 1870 or 1871. Interesting as that is about 2 years before the colt saa came out 1st to the army and about 4 or 5 years before the civilians could get them.
This one some frontier gunsmith cut the barrel way back. This was found in montanna at a old stage coach station where they were tearing a old barn down. Anyway, thats the story I was given from a old friend I traded to get it. He told me he was told that from some old people that he went to church with that gave him it.

The serial number on this gun is 1827. If these guns could talk they'd have some stories.
How do you put a picture in this post?

Just checked my permissions and they won't let me load pictures. Understandable I guess. Do you know what the value of your gun is?

I dont have a clue as to value of mine. I hope yours is in better shape. A uneducated guess for mine would probley be in the $600 to $700 area. I do think that it must sure have a colorfull history. Who knows? Maybe custer carried it, a sioux liberated it, some bounty hunter liberated it, got the barrel cut back, got cornered in the barn and hid it figuering he,d come back and get it when he busted jail, but got hung by vigilantes.

djc, I am not computer litterate, but I think you get a free photobucket account, load yer pictures in that then put them here from photobucket. I might have had my wife help me the 1st time, but that is how I do it. I know you have to be carefull to load the right pixel as big pictures piss off the boys with dialup.

Thank you feralmerril for the info. I'm doing this for a friend who doesn't have a computer. Wish I could be more help to him, but I use one of these gizmos to access phone switches and other systems to do my job. It's the company computer and I can't load a bunch of stuff on it. He's sending a request to S&W to get the lowdown on the gun, but we didn't want to seem completely ignorant to the factory. Anyway, what other guns do you own? I had a Sigma 9mm but sold it, a sweet model 67 38 spcl, and a Beretta PX4Storm 40 s&w.

djc, your friends american probley has a oil hole that mine hasnt. That is a bonus to collectors. Does it look a lot better than mine?
I will check my book soon. Likely yours COULD have been gov issue. Yours is a very low number and no doubt made in 1870. Letter would be $30 I think. I havent lettered mine. Yeah, I have quite a collection, mostly winchesters colts and s&ws. In over 50 years I had a lot come and go. I am not near as active collector as I was 30 years ago. I like the old western stuff. 30 to 40 years ago there was a lot of nice stuff and a lot cheaper around. I have owned old sharps, winchester 73s, springfield trapdoors, buffalo rifles, lot of old colts etc. I still have a few good ones but cry when I think of some of the stuff I let go.

It doesn't have an oil hole that we can find, but the gun is in great shape. No bluing left, but a beautiful patina finish. Really smooth with only one blemish on the left side and it's not bad for the age of the gun.
WOW. Sharps, 73's, spfld traps. I'd just like to hold a sharp rifle. I have a couple DB shotguns and several rifles but nothing of any value. Do have a springfield civil war gun with trap door but don't know what it's worth. My grandmother owned a liquor store and traded with people down on their luck and that's where it came from. Cool rifle but unsafe to shoot. Do you have a e-mail I could send some pictures to?

Sure, should be in my profile, but if it isnt here it is, [email protected]

If your old sixgun will not fit a 44 Mag but will chamber a 41 Mag nicely, then that is good. It shows that it is still chambered for the 44 S&W American and nobody has monkeyed with it. I have a 2nd Model American chambered for the 44 Russian. According to the factory letter, it was shipped in 1873. Yours would likely be earlier, since it is a first model. Here's a photo of mine:

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Kirk

djc, Your S&W American is a US military gun and a factory letter will only say that it was shipped to Springfield Arsenal, per US Gov't contract for 1,000 guns in 1871. These guns were issued to the 2nd thru 7th US cavalry regiments, and your gun was one of them. The x4 is the assembly number and you will find it stamped on the barrel between the "ears" and maybe on the bottom of the barrel latch. If you look closely , you will find small letters "A" and "P" stamped in the cylinder flutes, "A" being for the Gov't inspector, O.W.Ainsworth, who inspected the gun. His cartouch was on the grip also, but has probably worn off by now. The "P" is for "proof", indicating the gun has passed the cartridge proof firing. The grips have been switched at some time in the past, however the grip serial number is also a US gun, so the switch probably occured during the period both guns were in service. Springfield Research Service,a private organization, can tell you if they have any record of the gun's assigment to a soldier and/or which cavalry unit. They have copied the Military records in the Archives, and will research your gun for a small fee. .44 magnums, .44 Special & .44 Russian cartridges will not fit in your gun, only .44S&W American cartridges. Some of these US Americans were at the Battle of the Little Big Horn, I have one in my collection that was recovered from the Indians in Canada after the battle. Some of the fired cartridge cases excavated from the battle site in the 1980s are S&W American cases. The "oil hole" guns stopped at about serial number 1500. The "Oil HOle" is a collectors name for the small hole in the bottom of the barrel assembly. It has nothing to do with oil, but was an air pressure release for pressure built up in the extractor mechanism when the action was opened to eject spent rounds. At least that's what factory engineers thought, however it turned out that it didn't make that much difference in actual use of the gun. Actually US American Model w/o the Oil Hole are scarcer than the Oil Hole variation, but most collectors look for an Oil Hole example. Value of your gun is somewhere between $5000 and $8000, depending on overall condition and how much original finish might be seen, if any. Ed.

Sorry I'm late replying, couldn't get the computer home for a couple days. Thanks so much to all of you for the information. I knew the S&W forum would be the place to go for knowledge about this gun. I'll send you guys soome pictures in e-mail. We're starting with the S&W records and will follow up with the Springfield Research Service. Again, thank you.

I would sure like to see some pictures of this one. Maybe someone who djc sends the pictures to can post them for us to see??? Thanks.

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1891SingleShot

I believe I have a S&W 1880 44 cal top break revolver.the grips are chipped on both sides. serial nbr on the butt is 56151. same serial nbr appears on the cylinder. I would like to know its value...Do not know how to post a picture. If you would email me I would be glad to post some pics...

If you want to e-mail me I will attempt to post the picture. I might be able to put it on my photobucket thing. I aint sure it will work but can give it a try. I use photobucket for all my stuff.

[email protected]