I am interested in getting an idea of the correlation between the New Model #3 serial numbers and their shipping dates. I figured I'd start a chart that each person who has lettered their New Model #3 from Roy Jinks could contribute to. Just copy the latest chart from the previous message and insert your serial number and shipping date. Let's keep the chart ranked by serial numbers in ascending order (early serial numbers at the top, later ones further down). Here's my contribution for starters:

Serial #...Shipped
8823 ...... March 9, 1880

__________________
Kirk

Very nice indeed! I may only have one gun, but I sure do enjoy looking at more. Judging from how much I'm thinking of spending for an original Schofield, I know what you are saying about the possiblity of this becoming a serious affliction. Thank goodness my budget keeps a tight reign on me.

__________________
Kirk

2962.....March 29, 1875 .. .44Russian 6.5"barrel, blue , smooth walnut grips.
Deliverd to Russian Gov., St.Petersburg.


R. (Norway)

The "New" Model 3 wasn't released by S&W until 1878. Are you certain it was a NEW Model 3 ? Possibly you have the year, incorrect ? Sal Raimondi, Sr.

__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Mike, that is a very prestigious position your brother-in-law had. I'm familiar with the journal ... a very good one.

__________________
Kirk

Serial number correction[/QUOTE]

That is a gorgeous six-shooter!

__________________
Kirk

KKG,
I am not sure your intention, are you scouraging me or mike priwer? Do you have a dog in this hunt? Do you wish to contribute? I have no wish to disparge anyone from this forum nor discourage any free disperal of information. I collect NM#3's because I think they are the best single action SW ever produced. I find the production data in all aspects facinating.

That sounds similar to Winchester's production practices, although their serial numbers, over the long range, do correlate rather well with dates.

I don't see how this real data is misleading. You can already see that serial number progression does not necessarily correlate with date progression. I've never seen a chart of this data. Perhaps Roy Jinks has been compiling a searcheable data chart, but I don't have access to that. I like to have data. A person who has data has more knowledge than a person who does not. I don't think this is a question of either/or .... either a person relies on urban stories about what S&W's manufacturing practices were but has zero data to back it up; or a person has lots of data but no concept of what S&W's manufacturing practices were (although the latter person could certainly infer what the practices were by looking at the data). Rather than an either/or situation, both data and historical accounts of what went on are important.

The chart already gives info that is consistent with your conjecture of what S&W's manufacturing processes were. If we could get at least a hundred data points here, we'd have a very interesting piece of information. It won't help the new fellow trying to date his gun, but it is useful for other things, at least to flesh out an idea of S&W's manufacturing processes and what years had more orders than other years, etc.

__________________
Kirk

My point is, and this has been discussed numerous times, that if you try to look
for close correlations between serial numbers and shipping dates, then you do
not understand the manufacturing process.

The manufacturing process was based on batch-production of frames, as well as
other parts, in anticipation of eventual orders for completed guns. No one is
quite sure of the size of these batches, but the best estimates are in the
vicinity of 100 to 500 frames, and sometimes more. There is evidence that they
were sometimes about 1000.

At some point in the manufacturing cycle, when the frames were sufficiently
completed to allow serial numbering, they were serial numbered in these large
batches. The serial-numbering machine was self-incrementing, but sometimes it
was not started at the right serial number, for a particular frame. If it was
set too early, then duplicate serial numbers would result, and there are
numerous examples of these in the records. If it was set too late, then a gap
appears in the records. Sometimes this gap was noticed later, and was filled.

As the frames were serial numbered, they were placed into large bins, or boxes,
or barrels. Because of this prodedure, the first in were the last out. And,
sometimes, the bins or boxes or barrels were not completely emptied before
another batch of frames was dumped on top of them. And, sometimes , a box of frames
would get misplaced, only to be found several years later, and used at that time.

As part of the factories scheduling, a sizeable number of guns were always being
made up, and placed into inventory, in a large holding area. There seems to have
been no plan as to first-in, first-out. As collectors, the only date available
to us is the shipping date, not the manufacturing date. So, here again is another
opportunity for the serial number to be completely irrelevant to the shipping
date. I have owned identical consecutively-serial-numbered 1905's, shipped 8 years apart.

Over long periods of time, lower-serial-numbers are shipped before higher-serial-
numbers. But this is only over long periods of time, like several years. But over
shorter periods, like months or even one or two years, the order is likely to
be anything.

It is also well-known that Colt in particular, and quite possibly S&W on occasion,
would reverse the order of the serial-numbers being shipped. Colt did this to
give the illusion that their production was higher than it actually was. On
occasion, S&W may have also done this.

So, in answer to this question: "With all due respect, why do you care? "
I care a lot. What I care about most is that collectors understand what they are
doing. I care enough to learn what the production process was all about, so
that I don't go off on illogical tangents. I care enough to take the time, over
and over, to help people to understand these things. I care because I don't like
to see mis-leading conclusions being drawn from mis-leading data. Some collectors
will read this mis-leading data, and think there is something important there.

That is what I care about.

Later, Mike Priwer

You must remember it is Canada and so there is no need for any explanation beyond the fact that it is being done by Canadians! Everyone one is entitled to their own Opinions but Canadians "believe" that they are "Entitled" to their own Facts, as well!!!

Wow. You fellows aren't helping me at all in my struggle to resist the 'very serious affliction' that can develop once a fellow buys his very first antique S&W.

__________________
Kirk

Wow, that's an early shipping date you got there, and to Russia, no less!

Here's the updated chart:
New Model #3
Serial #...Shipped............ Caliber & Type
2773 ...... Sept. 1, 1879
2962 ...... Mar. 29, 1875 ... 44 Russian, blued, smooth walnut grips, Russian Gov't, St. Petersbug
6561 ...... Aug. 9, 1881 .... 44 Russian, blued, 6.5" bbl, smooth wood grips
6740 ...... March 7, 1882
6763 ...... March 15, 1882
8823 ...... March 9, 1880 ... 44 Russian, 6" barrel, nickel
18099...... Nov. 11, 1883
24672...... Aug. 11, 1904 ... 44 Russian, blued, 6.5"bbl, checkered wood grips, Japan
28501...... August 12, 1896

28035...... Sept. 4, 1893 ... 45 Schofield, blued 6.5" bbl, hard rubber grips, target sights, England

31779...... Aug. 7, 1899
34040...... May 24, 1904 .....44 Russian, 6.5" bbl, target sights, blue
35102...... Dec. 28, 1915 ... 44 Russian, 5"Bbl, TgtSites, Non-rebounding Hmr, Nickel.
35602.......Ltr pending ...... 44 Russian, blued, 6.5" bbl. target sights, cut for shoulder stock

New Model #3 Target
2001 ...... Mar. 30, 1893
2100 ...... Ltr Pending ..... 38-44
3384 ...... May 11, 1899

New Model #3 Frontier 44/40
52 .......... May 13, 1891
981 ........ Dec 11, 1893 .... 5"bbl, blued, hard rubber grips

__________________
Kirk

Data that does not fit our expectations is better than no data at all. To make matters worse, I've read that all the frames for the New Model #3's were made and serialized prior to 1898, qualifying all of them for antique status. Canada recognizes all New Model #3's as antiques, provided they are in obsolete calibers, such as the 44 Russian.

__________________
Kirk

As far as is publicly known, there is no information about when the serial-numbering machine
was run. There is not even any information about the size of the lots they ran, for serial
numbering. I made some inferences from the registered magnum data, and Roy published it
in a recent S&WCA journal.

What is even more curious is that there is no information - at least not known - as to when
a gun was completed and placed in the vault. Some would call this the manufacturing date.
Its plausible that the only information recorded was a description of the gun as it was
placed in the vault. There were documents known as work orders, and these followed the gun
around the factory, somehow or other. These seem to have disappeared after the gun was
completed.

Of course, as Roy has noted many times, they were not interested in future collectors. They
were just in the gun business.

Later, Mike Priwer

I think the Canadian politicians have the right idea by ruling that antique pistols are not a firearm. However, their restrictions by caliber are not necessary, as any caliber can have ammo made for it (I roll my own). It is not the caliber that keeps the gangs on the streets from using antique pistols, it is the rarity of the handguns themselves that justifies the antique designation. They are simply too hard to find and too expensive to attract the interest of the average bad guy. Modern semi-auto pistols are much more attractive to the average gang member. The vast majority of people are completely unaware of antique handguns and wouldn't even know where to find one if they wanted to. I'd like to see all pistols and rifles made before 1898 ruled as antique here in Canada. Forget about caliber designations. These old classics never will be an attraction to the drug-dealing rapper.

__________________
Kirk

I finally took the time to read thru these 5 pages and I have to tell you that I can see good points presented here, and the perspective of a newby to No. 3 S&W vs. the experience of years of collecting from people like Mike Priwer. A poor data base is better than none at all, I would have to agree, but why have a poor one when a better one is just as easy to build - Get ALL the data on a gun, not just the serial numer and ship date, and the data becomes much more useable. List all the features and then knowledge is increased many times. The data base then can provide information that will fit different focuses equally well. There are some records, held by a few collectors, that tell when a particular guns was buit. These are the Foreman's Day Book. These guns were built by workers paid by piece rate, working under Foremen who kept records by serial number of each gun as it passed thru their particular work station or function, so the pay rate based on the number of parts or functions a worker performed could be calculated. Only a few of these Day Books are in the CVHM S&W archives. The ones I've examined are held by a few collectors. I have sat down with the factory shipping ledgers and copied down serial numbers & shipping destinations of No. 3s that did not go to M.W. Robinson. Probably 80+% went to them. Someone mentioned Ser. Nos 1 to 5 as being shipped much later - this was because the practice at S&W until end of WW2 was to set aside the first 5 or so of each model for presentation to factory brass or VIPs. Often these guns sat at the factory for extended time periods or were returned to S&W by recipients at a later date and were eventually sold off in regular channels, creating a late shipping date entry in the records. Ser. No. 1 of a commercial model usually went to the factory museum, or the Rotunda display, and No. 2 thru 5 went to a Wesson family member or VIP. Alsolet me add another caliber to the list of No. 3. It is .22LR rimfire. After the 3rd model Single Shot production stopped, harol Wesson sent letters to the top revolver shooters and asked what they would like to see as a design for the new 4th model Single Shot, which eventually came out as the Straight Line. Some replies indicated that a No. 3 Model in .22 Single Shot was desired. American Model Serial No. 22710, in my collection is a .22RF caliber single shot conversion. Roy Jinks says he has seen two of these, including mine, however we have not been able to prove they are protypes made by S&W. My gun is a masterpiece of serious gunsmithing however, equal to any factory product. Guns like this are what makes all this worthwhile! Ed.

Originally posted by Buffalo Nichols:
Updated .44 Frontier

Here's the updated chart:
New Model #3
Serial #...Shipped............ Caliber & Type
2773 ...... Sept. 1, 1879
6561 ...... Aug. 9, 1881 .... 44 Russian, blued, 6.5" bbl, smooth wood grips
6740 ...... March 7, 1882
6763 ...... March 15, 1882
8823 ...... March 9, 1880 ... 44 Russian, 6" barrel, nickel
18099...... Nov. 11, 1883
24672...... Aug. 11, 1904 ... 44 Russian, blued, 6.5"bbl, checkered wood grips, Japan
26149.......October 1900... 44 Russian reblued,
6.5 " bbl, hard rubber grips, shipped to Japan
28501...... August 12, 1896

28035...... Sept. 4, 1893 ... 45 Schofield, blued 6.5" bbl, hard rubber grips, target sights, England

31779...... Aug. 7, 1899
34040...... May 24, 1904 .....44 Russian, 6.5" bbl, target sights, blue
35102...... Dec. 28, 1915 ... 44 Russian, 5"Bbl, TgtSites, Non-rebounding Hmr, Nickel.
35602.......Ltr pending ...... 44 Russian, blued, 6.5" bbl. target sights, cut for shoulder stock

New Model #3 Target
2001 ...... Mar. 30, 1893
2100 ...... May 1, 1894, St Louis, Mo.... 38-44
3384 ...... May 11, 1899
3789 ...... I got the barrel 6.5 ", 38-44, Post 1899 single line barrel address, caliber marked, for 1 9/16 length cylinder, don't know where the rest of the gun is.

New Model #3 Frontier 44/40
52 .......... May 13, 1891
981 ........ Dec 11, 1893 .... 5"bbl, blued, hard rubber grips[/quote]
>>>11808......Dec 31, 1900... 6" nickel, HR Grips..Monkey Wards, Chicago

__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Kirk

If I've discouraged you from thinking about serial number vs shipping
dates, then it was all worth it.

Regards, Mike Priwer

I love those long barrels. There's something about them that I can't put my finger on.

__________________
Kirk

I am interested in getting an idea of the correlation between the New Model #3 serial numbers and their shipping dates. I figured I'd start a chart that each person who has lettered their New Model #3 from Roy Jinks could contribute to. Just copy the latest chart from the previous message and insert your serial number and shipping date. Let's keep the chart ranked by serial numbers in ascending order (early serial numbers at the top, later ones further down). Here's my contribution for starters:

Serial #...Shipped
8823 ...... March 9, 1880

__________________
Kirk

Welcome to the forum,no expert here but between my knowing next to nothing and Gary ( glowe) knowing a lot our average is pretty good overall .Hope you hang around and do a lot of posting especialy if you have more S&Ws for us to look at .

When you post your new thread, please post many photographs of your NM #3 photographed in natural lighting. I'm not convinced one way or another, from these photographs alone, that your revolver contains the original finish or if it isn't an old reblue.

Thank you for the advice! I came to the same conclusion last night about starting a new thread, so I wrote one up and am currently just waiting on a moderator to approve it. I’ve attached additional photos to that post as well.
As for natural lighting, all I’ve had available to me so far was the store’s lighting, but I will get better photos once I bring the gun home!
V/R
E

__________________
Instagram:
***gellingsworth

Mike, I would have thought that you should be able to tell from the little bit of data that has already been posted that there is not much of a relationship between serial numbers and shipping dates. I think we can all see that. We are not babes in arms that need to be protected from real data in case we get mislead.

The shipping dates are not completely random. For example, it is doubtful that serial numbers 1 through 5 weren't shipped until 1912. If you think a data base of serial numbers and shipping dates is worthless, then I must confess that I am mystified. I use searchable databases on a daily basis and they really speed up the acquisition of knowledge. What we have on this thread is a very tiny sampling that we can search visually in a few seconds. I think it would be a worthy effort for someone to compile a huge searchable data base. I would be surprised if Roy Jinks is not beginning to do that. Everytime someone sends in a request for a letter, it would make good sense to record the serial number and the found data in a computer file. Five years later, after the pistol has changed hands and the new owner writes in for a letter, the whole search doesn't have to start from scratch all over again. The serial number is simply typed in and up comes all the data, including scans of old records, etc.

Mike, are you suggesting that average folk should not compile serial numbers and shipping dates and descriptions, or that this information should not be available for the public to see. I get suspicious when I hear stuff like that. Why do you not want the public to have this kind of information. Fearing that the poor, deluded public might be misled just does not wash. I collect old Winchesters as well and when I encounter a Winchester collector who doesn't want me to know stuff like serial numbers, shipping dates, factory info, etc. I get real suspicious. I, and a friend of mine, have been burned in some Winchester deals when we first started out because the sellers (who were very serious collectors themselves) knew we were new collectors. He could mislead me and overcharge me and pass off guns that did not letter to me, just so long as I didn't find out the real data. Because of having been burned bad in the past, when you don't want people to know the factory info on these old guns, I get big red flags, Mike.

__________________
Kirk

Thanks Win38-55, Okay don't twist my arm, here's the other side, Shoo

__________________
"Get Hammered By a Shooboy!!"

Interesting that Canadian law excludes 44R from modern calibers, but 44 Russian is currently commercially produced by at least 4 manufacturers as evidenced by the Midway web site. Quick buy the gun before the politicians find out.

That is correct the 32-44 and 38-44 targets are numbered in their own sequence as are the 44-40 and 38-40 and the rimfires. I would still like to see all models included in the list.

Updated Target Model 2100 and 3789, both 38-44

Here's the updated chart:
New Model #3
Serial #...Shipped............ Caliber & Type
2773 ...... Sept. 1, 1879
6561 ...... Aug. 9, 1881 .... 44 Russian, blued, 6.5" bbl, smooth wood grips
6740 ...... March 7, 1882
6763 ...... March 15, 1882
8823 ...... March 9, 1880 ... 44 Russian, 6" barrel, nickel
18099...... Nov. 11, 1883
24672...... Aug. 11, 1904 ... 44 Russian, blued, 6.5"bbl, checkered wood grips, Japan
28501...... August 12, 1896

28035...... Sept. 4, 1893 ... 45 Schofield, blued 6.5" bbl, hard rubber grips, target sights, England

31779...... Aug. 7, 1899
34040...... May 24, 1904 .....44 Russian, 6.5" bbl, target sights, blue
35102...... Dec. 28, 1915 ... 44 Russian, 5"Bbl, TgtSites, Non-rebounding Hmr, Nickel.
35602.......Ltr pending ...... 44 Russian, blued, 6.5" bbl. target sights, cut for shoulder stock

New Model #3 Target
2001 ...... Mar. 30, 1893
2100 ...... May 1, 1894, St Louis, Mo.... 38-44
3384 ...... May 11, 1899
3789 ...... I got the barrel 6.5 ", 38-44, Post 1899 single line barrel address, caliber marked, for 1 9/16 length cylinder, don't know where the rest of the gun is.

New Model #3 Frontier 44/40
52 .......... May 13, 1891
981 ........ Dec 11, 1893 .... 5"bbl, blued, hard rubber grips[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Here's an updated list so far, not including the Frontiers and the targest, which seem to have serial number ranges of their own? If you have new data to add, qoute this message and insert your serial numbers at the right location:
New Model #3
Serial #...Shipped............ Caliber & Type
2773 ...... Sept. 1, 1879
6561 ...... Aug. 9, 1881
6740 ...... March 7, 1882
6763 ...... March 15, 1882
8823 ...... March 9, 1880 ... 44 Russian, 6" barrel, nickel
18099...... Nov. 11, 1883
24672...... Aug. 11, 1904
28501...... Aug. 12, 1896
29035...... Sept. 4, 1893
31779...... Aug. 7, 1899

New Model #3 Target
2001 ...... Mar. 30, 1893
3384 ...... May 11, 1899

New Model #3 Frontier 44/40
52 .......... May 13, 1891
981 ........ Dec 11, 1893

__________________
Kirk

I added ser#35102 shipped in very late 1915.

Buff, all very interesting. Just makes the New Model #3 more fascinating than ever.

Mike, you are right about hypothesis, details, etc. I'd love to see that info on the S&WCA site, but I noticed that it costs money. I guess I'm not a serious enough collector, otherwise, I'd have no problem with the membership fee (I am a member of the WACA). I just have one, single New Model #3 (photo below) and I'd like to get an original Schofield. I spend my days doing science, up to my eyeballs in aligned sequence data, writing software to mine that data, exploring the implications for protein folding, writing papers for science journals, etc. I come here for a break .... just to enjoy. I'm enjoying this thread (except for your comments that express, shall we say, a certain 'lack of enthusiasm' for this thread).

Here's what I'll say to you, from a serious Winchester collector to a S&W collector: When I see a new fellow who doesn't know a whole lot about old Winchesters enthusiastically discussing something that I've known about for a dog's age and that has been discussed long before the new guy ever came along, I don't ridicule him, tell him this has been discussed a thousand times already, talk down to him, and in general, treat him like a moron. Quite the contrary; I encourage him and contribute to his knowledge in a down-home kind of way. This weekend, I've invited a new Winchester collector to spend the weekend with me and my family. He's a new fellow who got taken bigtime by an experienced collector who didn't want him to know things like factory info on serial numbers, etc and sold him an altered gun for an impressive price. He's coming over this weekend to get an education in what to look for in original old Winchesters, how to reload for the obsolete calibers, do some shooting, and just have a good time talking about old Winchesters while enjoying good coffee and good food. I don't know you, and perhaps you come across in a pompous, know-it-all way that is not at all the way you really are, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Nevertheless, you really need to be more encouraging to new guys who may not know a whole lot and who enjoy simple things like the chart in this thread for example.

Now here's a photo of my entire antique S&W collection (it may be a very small collection, but I ain't proud ) : A New Model #3 shipped in 1880 with a factory 6" barrel and all matching serial numbers.


Now, does anyone have anymore data to update the chart with? Here's the latest version:
New Model #3
Serial #...Shipped............ Caliber & Type
2773 ...... Sept. 1, 1879
6561 ...... Aug. 9, 1881 .... 44 Russian, blued, 6.5" bbl, smooth wood grips
6740 ...... March 7, 1882
6763 ...... March 15, 1882
8823 ...... March 9, 1880 ... 44 Russian, 6" barrel, nickel
18099...... Nov. 11, 1883
24672...... Aug. 11, 1904 ... 44 Russian, blued, 6.5"bbl, checkered wood grips, Japan
28501...... August 12, 1896

29035...... Sept. 4, 1893 ... 45 Schofield, blued 6.5" bbl, hard rubber grips, target sights, England

31779...... Aug. 7, 1899
35102...... Dec. 28, 1915 ... 44 Russian, 5"Bbl, TgtSites, Non-rebounding Hmr, Nickel.
35602.......Ltr pending ...... 44 Russian, blued, 6.5" bbl. target sights, cut for shoulder stock

New Model #3 Target
2001 ...... Mar. 30, 1893
2100 ...... Ltr Pending ..... 38-44
3384 ...... May 11, 1899

New Model #3 Frontier 44/40
52 .......... May 13, 1891
981 ........ Dec 11, 1893 .... 5"bbl, blued, hard rubber grips

__________________
Kirk

Mike, I'm involved in computational biophysics, specializing in developing a method to detect and measure functional information encoded in DNA and proteins. The objective is to see if we can decipher the info into something meaningful. Currently, I'm focusing on how the information can be translated such that we can predict the 3-D structure of proteins. To keep myself sane, I collect and shoot old Winchesters, with antique S&W's becoming a strong interest as well (but I'm trying to resist buying any more (except for maybe a Schofied) ... my budget takes a severe enough thrashing on a regular basis just getting old Winchesters).

__________________
Kirk

According to all of the source books I have the NM#3 was offered in the following calibers.
32 S&W, 32-44 S&W, 320 S&W Revolving Rifle, 38 S&W, 38-40 Winchester, 38-44 S&W, 41 S&W, 44 Rim Fire Henry, 44 S&W American, 44 S&W Russian, 44-40 Winchester, 45 Schofield, 450 Revolver, 45 Webley, 455 Mark I, 455 Mark II. The 32-44 and 38-44 Targets (4334 total)are in a seperate serial number range as are the 38-40 (74 total)and 44-40 (2073 manufactured but 786 were converted to 44 Russian so there are only 1287 in original configuration and caliber). In Jim Supicas lateste book it indicates that some calibers such as 44-40 may exist in the main serial number range. So confusing but I hope that helps.

Kirk,
The one I listed is a New Model #3 that is chambered in 45 Schofield, not a Schofield model. There is another pictured in the Neal & Jinks book "S&W 1857 to 1945" on page 182, mine is configured the same way except for the front sight.You will note the serial numbers are very close. Sorry for the confusion. And by the way thank you for starting and defending this thread.

Nice group Gary. A question if I may, since I have Target Model #2100 a nickled 38-44, I am curious as to Target Model 2001, caliber and finish

Mike,
I don't know you and I know you are a regular contributer to the forum. Let me say this we are sharing information on a SW model we have a mutual interest in. With all due respect, why do you care? If you choose not to participate in this particular exchange of information then don't, but please do not question our right to share information with another member of this board. If you have reason to believe this exchange is somehow detremental to one or all us this please advise as to your concern.
No offense intended or taken.
Buffalo Nichols

Not at all, Mike. I still find that stuff even more interesting than when I started the thread. What I'd really like to know, however, is the relationship between the serial number and the date the frame was serialized. For old Winchesters, the date the frame received its serial number was recorded in the polishing room and much of that data still exists today, awaiting publication. The warehouse recorded the shipping dates. I wonder if S&W had something equivalent and if the records for when the frame was serialized still exist?

__________________
Kirk

Excellent Jim! That chart is getting more interesting all the time.

__________________
Kirk

I should have commented that I have some target sighted guns in the normal serial number sequence, these are in 44 Russian and 45 Schofield

Kirk

Roy doesn't do these kind of studies. The reason he doesn't is that he knows
that the guns were not built, or shipped, in serial number order.

I think you are not being objective with yourself. I think that the reason you
want to look at this data is to uncover some relationship between the shipping
date and the serial number. Maybe it's enjoyable for you to do this. But the
reality is that there is no relationship, other that they obvious long long term
connection.

I argue that it is a misleading effort - just by virture of the fact that you are
doing it, and presenting it to others. Its entirely possible that some short
sequence will be in perfect correlation. But that would be entirely coincidental.
It is not a cause and effect relationship, but I suspect that if you came across
such a sequence, you would think that it was important, or at the very least,
interesting.

The relationship between serial numbers and shipping dates is random, by definition
of the production practice. Its misleading to look for meaning in random data.

Later, Mike Priwer

I didn't have any, but I am interested in data, probably why I started school when I was 6 years old and am still going to school at the age of 53.

I do notice, however, that there does appear to be a better correlation between serial number and shipping dates for the serial numbers less than 8,000. I wouldn't be surprised if other correlations emerged with a larger sample. For example, there may be runs of serial numbers that do correspond to a trend in shipping dates.

So far, the Schofields seem to be better correlated.

Bottom Line: I find data like this interesting.

__________________
Kirk

Really interesting stuff. I'll add one to the list. No. 3 with serial number 34040, 44R, target sights, 6 1/2 blue barrel. Shipped May 24, 1904 to William Read & Sons Boston. This serial number is on the bottom of an original box I have and I lettered the box just to see what I could learn.

With all due respect to Reldor, I believe what he has is a Third Model Russian as the ship date is three years prior to NM#3 production.
The 3rd Model Russian was made from 1874 - 1879.
How is the barrel marked? Is the front sight forged to the barrel instead of pinned? Does it have a large thumb screw in the top strap to release the cylinder fro the barrel assembly? These are all indicators.

Given all the discussions, and information, that have been posted on this site, as well as others,
run it by me one more time as to exactly what these expectations were .

Thanks in advance, Mike Priwer

<STRIKE>11808......Dec 31, 1900... 6" nickel, HR Grips..Monkey Wards, Chicago </STRIKE> - Comment: any chance this is a Frontier DA rather than NM#3? OOPS! Sorry.....

TURKISH MODEL

702 ...... Dec. 20, 1880


REVOLVING RIFLES

516 ...... April 14-1884 ...... Factory engraved w/ rosewood stock & forend.
651 ...... April 19, 1890 ...... to J.C. Flack (anyone recognize the name?)
812 ...... Oct. 28, 1883

38 WINCHESTER MODEL
18 ...... Oct. 2, 1903 ...... 5” barrel.
34 ...... June 17, 1903
37 ...... Dec. 20, 1902[/QUOTE]

__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Yours is not to question why -yours is just to walk away with a smile on your face.
Or, don't kick a sleeping dog.

From your past comments, are you involved in cell biology ?

Later, Mike Priwer

Thanks, Lawlor2. Here's the latest version:
New Model #3
Serial #...Shipped............ Caliber & Type
2773 ...... Sept. 1, 1879
6561 ...... Aug. 9, 1881 .... 44 Russian, blued, 6.5" bbl, smooth wood grips
6740 ...... March 7, 1882
6763 ...... March 15, 1882
8823 ...... March 9, 1880 ... 44 Russian, 6" barrel, nickel
18099...... Nov. 11, 1883
24672...... Aug. 11, 1904 ... 44 Russian, blued, 6.5"bbl, checkered wood grips, Japan
28501...... August 12, 1896

29035...... Sept. 4, 1893 ... 45 Schofield, blued 6.5" bbl, hard rubber grips, target sights, England

31779...... Aug. 7, 1899
34040...... May 24, 1904 .....44 Russian, 6.5" bbl, target sights, blue
35102...... Dec. 28, 1915 ... 44 Russian, 5"Bbl, TgtSites, Non-rebounding Hmr, Nickel.
35602.......Ltr pending ...... 44 Russian, blued, 6.5" bbl. target sights, cut for shoulder stock

New Model #3 Target
2001 ...... Mar. 30, 1893
2100 ...... Ltr Pending ..... 38-44
3384 ...... May 11, 1899

New Model #3 Frontier 44/40
52 .......... May 13, 1891
981 ........ Dec 11, 1893 .... 5"bbl, blued, hard rubber grips[/QUOTE]

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Kirk