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01-30-2011, 09:57 AM
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Kansas City MO. Police 357 Magnum Questions??
How many 357 magnums were shipped to the Kansas City Mo. police back in the late 30's and early 40's. What were the starting and ending serial numbers? Were they consective numbers or out of series? Were most all of them 4 inch barrel blue? Did most have King front sights? Thanks!
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01-30-2011, 02:15 PM
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According to the factory letter on the KC magnum I own 250 unit shipped in September 1939 with registration numbers from 4987 to 5236. The serial number range was not listed in the letter. Mine has blue finish,Magna grips , 4 inch barrel, Baughman ramp on King base and that is the way it letters. All I have seen( very few) were in that configuration
Last edited by Toyman; 01-30-2011 at 03:23 PM.
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01-30-2011, 02:32 PM
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Toyman is correct about the serial number range and shipping date. S&W made a flyer promoting the KC police as being equipped 100 percent Magnum! It described the revolver as a .357 Magnum with a short barrel and Baughman sights.
Bill
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01-30-2011, 02:47 PM
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Roger,
In addition to the 250 guns which shipped in Sept. 1939, there was an additional shipment of 200 guns that shipped on Jan. 30, 1940. These guns were all 4" and blue finish. Since that model could be ordered with any style of front sight, it wasn't generally listed on the invoice but I believe that most, if not all, were Baughman on a plain ramp.
There was another shipment of 26 guns which shipped on July 3, 1940. Of those 26 guns, two had 3.5" barrels and one had a 6.5" barrel!. The other twenty-three had 4" barrels.
Another interesting variation found in the KCPD guns is the mixture of plain and Humpback hammers. As far as I know, no one has satisfactorily explained whether these were original or added when the guns were factory refinished when they were deaccessioned by the Department.
Bob
Last edited by bettis1; 01-31-2011 at 09:22 PM.
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01-30-2011, 02:49 PM
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The second or follow up shipment was nominally 200 more non-registered guns (Roy will tell you the first 250 were non-registereds, too because they weren't eligible for the registration program.) Nearly all were 4" guns.
The serial number issue has been debated back and forth. The serials and the registration numbers didn't move in lock-step. We've seen high serials and lower registrations. For a while some of us tried to make sense out of it all. Kevin will be along (hopefully) to tell us what he's recorded in his research.
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01-30-2011, 02:55 PM
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The brochure which Bill mentioned shows Chief Lear B. Reed holding a 3.5" nickel .357 and three uniformed officers all holding 4" blue revolvers. I asked Roy about the photograph and he indicated to me that the guns were simply those which were available at the Factory when the photo-op was taken.
I have never been told just exactly when that brochure photo was taken. That would be of interest to me since I own a nickel 3.5" non-RM that shipped on March 5, 1940 to a KY HP officer. There were very few nickel non-Regs produced so it is possible that the gun that Chief Reed is holding is that gun.
Another very interesting part of that brochure is that there is a note at the bottom announcing the "New K22 Masterpiece...the world's finest target revolver".
Bob
Last edited by bettis1; 01-30-2011 at 03:05 PM.
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01-30-2011, 03:16 PM
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Because every thread about pre-war .357 Magnum's should have some pics, here's a KCPD gun from the July 3, 1940, shipment. (Serial# 61959, no registration number)
Originally shipped with a Baughman ramp frontsight, this one has been replaced with a gold bead Patridge style sight.
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01-30-2011, 03:24 PM
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Here is a rough scan of said document.
Ed
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01-30-2011, 06:36 PM
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Here's another KCPD gun. This one is from the first shipment, Sept 7, 1939 and carries Reg #5159, Ser No. 59749. The grips were refurbished by Keith Brown and come from another gun. The gun itself appears to wear its original finish. I take this old Mag to the range at least once a year just to keep her in shape.
Jerry
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01-30-2011, 11:24 PM
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Just as soon as I get my S&W History letter back, I will post the results. Mine is serial 61067. Blue, 4 inch, front sight is King base with some kind of blade sight. I think mine has been reblued, and carries Magnas from a 50's gun. It has been in the family since the 70's, just now figured out what it was. Thanks for everyones help with the info. Take care.
Roger Allgood
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01-31-2011, 09:30 AM
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Roger, most of the KCPD Magnums were reblued at some time. Mine is one of the few with the original, though well used, finish. Jerry's above also looks original.
Look forward to seeing the history letter info on yours, and maybe some pictures.
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01-31-2011, 08:09 PM
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Mine shipped January 30th, 1940 and the letter does not mention it being shipped with any other guns. Is that a detail they usually omit?
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01-31-2011, 09:10 PM
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Lonegunman,
With Roy's letters the first page or so usually contains "boilerplate" information that relates to the model at hand. When he addresses the specific gun he tells us what the invoice says, usually the shipping date, the shipping destination and the shipping configuration of the gun. If there are additional notes on the invoice relating to custom features those will also be reported.
I think that when he comments on things like the number of guns in the shipment and the unit cost he is just adding information that he has in mind from previous knowledge.
So, I've had letters that mentioned the number in the shipment and the unit cost and other letters that didn't have that info.
Bob
Correction:
I just noted that I said the 200 guns shipped on Jan. 10, 1940. That was an typo error. The correct date was Jan. 30, 1940 so if your gun shipped on that date, it was one of the 200.
B.
Last edited by bettis1; 01-31-2011 at 09:25 PM.
Reason: add'n info
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10-08-2016, 10:07 PM
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Kansas City MO. Police 357 Magnum Questions??
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Last edited by lestert357; 08-12-2018 at 07:26 AM.
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10-08-2016, 11:19 PM
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This is 61632 a 3 1/2 inch non registered magnum shipped to Kansas City P.D. in the same shipment was 61633 a 3 1/2 inch that was engraved L.B. REED on the side plate and billed to the advertising account of Harvey Rush the S&W distributor at the time of the shipment. The where abouts of 61633 is unknown at this time.
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10-09-2016, 01:39 PM
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Here is KC Magnum Reg. #5004. Shipped 9/7/1939 with 4" barrel, King ramp front sight, square notch rear sight and hump back hammer.
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10-09-2016, 03:06 PM
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I did a display at SWCA meeting in Kansas City about K.C.P.D. guns.
From my note I found the following:
1st shipment December 1936 5 5 inch and 1 6 inch. This was before L.B. Reed was appointed chief.
After Reed was appointed chief:
September 1939 250 4 inch.
January 1940 200 4 inch.
July 1940 35 4 inch, 2 3 1/2 inch and 1 6 1/2 inch
When Reed was appointed chief he was tasked with cleaning up the department. He fired many officers and started hiring standards and training and also standardized equipment.
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10-09-2016, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j38
Here's another KCPD gun. This one is from the first shipment, Sept 7, 1939 and carries Reg #5159, Ser No. 59749. The grips were refurbished by Keith Brown and come from another gun. The gun itself appears to wear its original finish. I take this old Mag to the range at least once a year just to keep her in shape.
Jerry
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Jerry;
I have you RM's twin brother, -- Ser. # 59742, -- Reg. # 5137, Identical configuration as yours, and shipped in the same batch.
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10-09-2016, 08:47 PM
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Rusty,
About a year ago I happened on a set of pre-war Magnus that were numbered to another RM in the same September shipment to the KCPD. I had them restored and they are now worn by the gun you see above. I'd love to see your RM.
Jerry
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10-09-2016, 09:15 PM
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This is ........
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05-09-2018, 08:27 PM
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Kansas City MO. Police 357 Magnum Questions??
Some additional KCPD Magnum pictures and information about Chief Lear B. Reed. Click on the pictures to enlarge them.
Serial# 59384/Reg# 5008 With Original Finish, Configuration, and Grips (left) and Serial# 61959/NRM With Original Finish, Modified Sights, and Non-matching Grips (right)
KCPD Historical Information on Chief Lear B. Reed
Press Photos of Lear B. Reed During His Tenure As Chief, KCPD
Post Card of 1940’s Kansas City, Missouri Civic Center, Police Headquarters in the Center
Lear B. Reed’s Headstone, Prospect Hill Cemetery, Front Royal, Virginia
Klein’s Sporting Goods, Inc. of Chicago 1957 Print Add Advertising Surplus 4” KCPD Pre-War Magnums
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Last edited by lestert357; 05-11-2018 at 05:39 PM.
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05-09-2018, 08:36 PM
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Another bit of KCPD RMs trivia. I owned one once and shortly after I aquired it I found an interesting holster.
It was a tan leather N frame S. D. Myres with KCPD stamped in it.
There may be more of them out there.
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05-10-2018, 12:32 AM
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Reed had been in New York City and shot and killed a women while either serving a warrant or during a raid. Hoover moved him to Oklahoma City.
After the Kansas City massacre Reed was sent to K.C.
Hoover wanted K.C. cleaned up and when Governor Stark got the Missouri legislature to take local control away and he appointed a committee to over see the P.D. you will not that one of the people was Calvin Coolige, former president
Who do you suppose the former president would contact looking for advise ?
I believe Hoover had a great influence in picking Reed as chief.
A badge from Reed's detective agency.
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05-10-2018, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman
Reed had been in New York City and shot and killed a women while either serving a warrant or during a raid.
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I believe these press photos are the episode Toyman is referring to, although they seem to indicate that it happened in St. Louis rather than NYC.
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05-10-2018, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman
A badge from Reed's detective agency.
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Toyman, your badge collection is amazing!
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