TELL TALE SIGNS
- Thread starter 10shot
- Start date
ar15ed
Well-known member
rounded edges, where a crisp, original edge has been overpolished is the #1 clue. non-flat (wavy looking, from overpolishing) surfaces are another.
another main clue is "smeared" looking screw holes, where polishing has removed material from one side or edge of a screwhole, kinda ovalizing it.
flattened pins, that should be proud.
one of the main things i look for is crisp stampings. when a rollmark or stamping is made, it almost always "raises" the metal around the letter, or mark. it takes very little polishing to remove this "edge". lots of folks look for shallow stampings, but you have to be careful. s&w, as well as colt had very variable stamping "depth" across their histories, as rolls and stamps wore.
sometimes you can even just tell, when it doesn't "look" right. best thing is to look at lots of guns, and become familiar with what the originals look like. once you become familiar with stuff you are interested in, you can spot differences quickly.
that is the stuff i usually look for. sometimes it is painfully obvious, and sometimes a really nice job is pretty hard to detect.
good luck!
another main clue is "smeared" looking screw holes, where polishing has removed material from one side or edge of a screwhole, kinda ovalizing it.
flattened pins, that should be proud.
one of the main things i look for is crisp stampings. when a rollmark or stamping is made, it almost always "raises" the metal around the letter, or mark. it takes very little polishing to remove this "edge". lots of folks look for shallow stampings, but you have to be careful. s&w, as well as colt had very variable stamping "depth" across their histories, as rolls and stamps wore.
sometimes you can even just tell, when it doesn't "look" right. best thing is to look at lots of guns, and become familiar with what the originals look like. once you become familiar with stuff you are interested in, you can spot differences quickly.
that is the stuff i usually look for. sometimes it is painfully obvious, and sometimes a really nice job is pretty hard to detect.
good luck!
I have heard that if you look with a LED light, it will look "funny".
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2007
- Messages
- 27,659
- Reaction score
- 21,265
ar15ed makes all the good points. I would only add that, much more often that not, the case-colored hammer and trigger are blued with the refinish, or if left alone they look much more worn than the reblued parts.
Kelly Green
Well-known member
In addition to all the good advice noted above.
Look at the cylinder and cylinder notches. If you see little or no drag line but the notches show wear, that’s a giveaway.
Look at the recoil plate. Cycling scratches may be blued over.
Look at the gun on angle in bright sunlight (ordinary room light won’t do) for pitting that has been blued over especially in tight corners. Look for unevenness along the length of the barrel and flat areas due to some of the old bluing not being completely removed. Sometimes the areas around the stamping will not be brought down so as not to mar the rollmarks and stamping. Easy to spot.
If you can remove the grips, do so. A lot of imperfections can be hiding behind those grips.
Look at the cylinder and cylinder notches. If you see little or no drag line but the notches show wear, that’s a giveaway.
Look at the recoil plate. Cycling scratches may be blued over.
Look at the gun on angle in bright sunlight (ordinary room light won’t do) for pitting that has been blued over especially in tight corners. Look for unevenness along the length of the barrel and flat areas due to some of the old bluing not being completely removed. Sometimes the areas around the stamping will not be brought down so as not to mar the rollmarks and stamping. Easy to spot.
If you can remove the grips, do so. A lot of imperfections can be hiding behind those grips.
Another sign of a refinish is poor side plate to frame fit. An original gun has a an almost invisble seam but a refinished gun will show a wider gap.
Looks like I have an original 1961 model 10 2" barrel 38. The gun has none of the examples that ar15ed has mentioned or does it have blued trigger or hammer they are case harden color.
The reason I asked is I have a 1948 K 22 6" & a 1954 K 38 6".Both have a duller blueing.The model 10 has a deep blue high gloss finish. Guess S&W changed there blueing.
Any comments?
Thanks
The reason I asked is I have a 1948 K 22 6" & a 1954 K 38 6".Both have a duller blueing.The model 10 has a deep blue high gloss finish. Guess S&W changed there blueing.
Any comments?
Thanks
Kelly Green
Well-known member
The old S&W’s were blued with a process called carbona (a hot dry blue process) that resembles a charcoal blue. The new bluing is done in a chemical bath.
One more quick indicator: on guns with original finish, the beveled front of the ejector rod is "in the white" -- unblued. When that surface is blued, it indicates a refinish for the gun.
bobsdad
US Veteran
Good to know, but when did S&W change their blueing process?
firearmsunlimited
Well-known member
Carbona bluing ceased in 1978.
The bluing process has nothing to do with the finish gloss or lack of it. That is accomplished in the polishing process. High gloss is refered to as "bright blue" by most S&W collectors.
firearmsunlimited
Well-known member
The difference in gloss that you mention was done intentionally by S&W. Some models were produced with a luster finish and some with a high gloss. On some models a high gloss finish could be special ordered as an option.
P&R Fan
Well-known member
As a long time collector this is something that I am not as good at spotting as I should be. Very interesting. I read recently that if you shine a very bright "tactical" flashlight on it there will be telltale signs. Anybody want to comment on that?
Jim
Jim
BRush
SWCA Member
All good points. Yes, a strong light is a must. I always take my surefire flashlight and a magnifying glass to shows and auctions.
skeezix
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
"I read recently that if you shine a very bright "tactical" flashlight on it there will be telltale signs. Anybody want to comment on that?"
I, too, would like more info in this. What will the LED light show me that a regular incandescent light won't? Anything in particular, or just a brighter view of what's there?
I, too, would like more info in this. What will the LED light show me that a regular incandescent light won't? Anything in particular, or just a brighter view of what's there?
I believe what Mr. Wilson is refering to; he can correct me when I'm wrong, are the flats on the ejector rod where the hand engages the star to rotate the cylinder. On my particular gun those flats are blued (Dead Giveaway). However, I have an old (1921) 32 HE that was factory refinished, per Jink's letter, and the flats on the ejector star are in the white. I can't tell if it's white due to time since reblue, or S&W polished the blue from that part after the process.
Some obvious differences on these two nickeled guns.
Note the sharp, clean edges on the sideplate and frame fit of the first gun, it's a factory nickel finish.
This gun has been refinished. Note the rounded edges of the sideplate and frame which occurred when it was polished on a buffer, and the "dished out" appearance of the screw holes.
Note the sharp, clean edges on the sideplate and frame fit of the first gun, it's a factory nickel finish.
This gun has been refinished. Note the rounded edges of the sideplate and frame which occurred when it was polished on a buffer, and the "dished out" appearance of the screw holes.
