|
|
07-22-2011, 12:15 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,809
Likes: 1,112
Liked 1,865 Times in 440 Posts
|
|
Pre-Victory model.....
Last edited by LOBO; 09-23-2011 at 10:47 AM.
|
07-22-2011, 12:37 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Heart of Dixie
Posts: 978
Likes: 100
Liked 931 Times in 306 Posts
|
|
Lobo, Looks like one of the S.A. contract guns to me. I asked you some questions about yours on my Trio thread but your pics answered all of them. I love the action on my two with British proofs. The S.A. marked is good but no where near as slick as the British. How is yours?
Larry
|
07-22-2011, 01:17 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,809
Likes: 1,112
Liked 1,865 Times in 440 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldiron
Lobo, Looks like one of the S.A. contract guns to me. I asked you some questions about yours on my Trio thread but your pics answered all of them. I love the action on my two with British proofs. The S.A. marked is good but no where near as slick as the British. How is yours?
Larry
|
Larry,
I saw your questions, but instead of answering I opted to put a link to this thread for you. I didn't want to hijack your thread on the trio.
Is there a certain mark on this gun that is not a British mark? Regarding the re-routed pre-Vics, where were they sent?
You speak the truth friend! This gun has a beautifully slick action. The single action pull is like that of a tuned model 700 rifle trigger. I can't wait to shoot this one
|
07-22-2011, 07:51 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Homerville, Ohio
Posts: 5,279
Likes: 28,682
Liked 9,263 Times in 2,384 Posts
|
|
It appears that you have a keeper LOBO. Congrats. Now, take it out and shoot it and show it some love.
|
07-22-2011, 09:13 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,809
Likes: 1,112
Liked 1,865 Times in 440 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrafsr
It appears that you have a keeper LOBO. Congrats. Now, take it out and shoot it and show it some love.
|
You can count on it!
|
07-22-2011, 01:11 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Atlanta area
Posts: 9,087
Likes: 16,778
Liked 20,443 Times in 4,648 Posts
|
|
Square Inch
Great photography too. I love the way the Britts designate "square inch".
|
07-22-2011, 01:42 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lavender Mtn, Georgia
Posts: 1,328
Likes: 4,644
Liked 4,059 Times in 680 Posts
|
|
I Like It!
|
07-22-2011, 02:32 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Heart of Dixie
Posts: 978
Likes: 100
Liked 931 Times in 306 Posts
|
|
Lobo, Those were ordered by South Africa and S&W shows shipping to S.A. in 1940 but it seems as though the first couple of shipments were rerouted to other British Commonwealth uses (British proof marks). Found this out when I was researching my first one (the one on my Trio thread with the U arrow and property #). So far I don't think anyone has actually found any paperwork to answer the who, what, when and where this happened but strong circumstantial evidence dictates this was the case.
One of the things I like about these revolvers is that they have a wild story behind them but are not so wild that I can't go have lots of fun shooting them. Hope you enjoy yours as much as I have mine.
Larry
P.S. Hope Midway get Brass in soon for these. 150 cases dont go far in a days worth of fun.
|
07-22-2011, 08:44 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SE PA
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 1,270
Liked 1,097 Times in 548 Posts
|
|
You should be able to get 38SW brass from Starline which is where Midway buys theirs. Advantage is that Starline's price includes shipment. Load with 0.360" 180 grain lead FPs and run around 650 fps. Mimics the 380/200 load in my fair number of such pistols. Dave_n
|
07-23-2011, 10:02 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Africa
Posts: 357
Likes: 0
Liked 236 Times in 118 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldiron
Lobo, Those were ordered by South Africa and S&W shows shipping to S.A. in 1940 but it seems as though the first couple of shipments were rerouted to other British Commonwealth uses (British proof marks). Found this out when I was researching my first one (the one on my Trio thread with the U arrow and property #). So far I don't think anyone has actually found any paperwork to answer the who, what, when and where this happened but strong circumstantial evidence dictates this was the case.
.
|
It is a bit more than circumstantial Oldiron. Please see the documents I posted on this thread
38/200 pix .
Peter
|
07-23-2011, 01:55 PM
|
|
SWCA Member Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The kidney of Dixie.
Posts: 10,446
Likes: 49
Liked 13,416 Times in 3,292 Posts
|
|
I associate the 38 S&W caliber guns as having 5" tubes. Is this 4" variation common?
|
07-23-2011, 02:20 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Sunny Florida, USA
Posts: 1,595
Likes: 127
Liked 4,161 Times in 828 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaxonPig
I associate the 38 S&W caliber guns as having 5" tubes. Is this 4" variation common?
|
No, the 4 inch .38 S&W guns are not considered to be common and are actually pretty darn scarce.
They are generally referred to by collectors as "South African" pre-Victory Models. Factory letters will indicate that they was shipped to SA, which is precisely what the factory records show. However, as Peter (PJGP) has pretty conclusively demonstrated a good chunk of them were later diverted to the UK and did not end up in South Africa. That explains why some of the guns that letter as shipped to South Africa do not have the characteristic South African property and rack/inventory numbers.
__________________
Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215
|
07-23-2011, 02:21 PM
|
Moderator
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Suburban Chicago
Posts: 4,944
Likes: 1,081
Liked 6,702 Times in 1,554 Posts
|
|
SP, the 5" guns are most common but the 4", and 6" guns show up also on occasion. The Canadians also seemed to like the 6" guns for some reason.
__________________
John. SWCA #1586
Last edited by hsguy; 07-23-2011 at 02:23 PM.
|
07-23-2011, 02:47 PM
|
Moderator
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Suburban Chicago
Posts: 4,944
Likes: 1,081
Liked 6,702 Times in 1,554 Posts
|
|
Here is another pre-Victory that letters as being shipped to SA but is devoid of any ownership or proof markings.
__________________
John. SWCA #1586
|
07-22-2011, 09:10 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NORTH CAROLINA.
Posts: 1,711
Likes: 280
Liked 1,077 Times in 241 Posts
|
|
I like it too nice gun
__________________
God save the SOUTH
|
07-22-2011, 09:21 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Heart of Dixie
Posts: 978
Likes: 100
Liked 931 Times in 306 Posts
|
|
Dave_n, Haven't thought about buying direct from Starline. At the moment I need 38sw, 32 sw long and 32-20 brass. On other calibers I prefer not to get Starline because of the rough edges they leave on the necks but I guess a night in the tumbler like my Starline .32 H&R mag brass got and they are ok.
Larry
|
07-22-2011, 09:49 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,809
Likes: 1,112
Liked 1,865 Times in 440 Posts
|
|
|
05-06-2021, 05:23 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Duckburg, Oregon
Posts: 124
Likes: 22
Liked 65 Times in 14 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOBO
|
My 38-200 in the other thread is number 685267. Very close to this threads pistol. Mine has no extra markings , proofs . Nothing.
|
05-07-2021, 11:53 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8,151
Likes: 28,047
Liked 34,030 Times in 5,321 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamden
My 38-200 in the other thread is number 685267. Very close to this threads pistol. Mine has no extra markings , proofs . Nothing.
|
Mine, too 685987.
Here's a thread I did back when. Its very interesting to me that neither of our guns have the expected marks.
.38 S&W M&P help, please (Updated with letter)
__________________
“What you got, ain’t new.”
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-07-2021, 02:26 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Duckburg, Oregon
Posts: 124
Likes: 22
Liked 65 Times in 14 Posts
|
|
Here the letter on this gun
38/200 pix
I added the lanyard ring. The hole was plugged with a solder/lead material that dug out easily.
Last edited by Hamden; 05-07-2021 at 02:29 PM.
Reason: addition
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-07-2021, 02:43 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8,151
Likes: 28,047
Liked 34,030 Times in 5,321 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamden
Here the letter on this gun
38/200 pix
I added the lanyard ring. The hole was plugged with a solder/lead material that dug out easily.
|
Shipped the same day as mine, which also had the lanyard hole filled the same way. No proof marks anywhere. Weird.
One poster in my old thread said these S. African guns were diverted to England, even though they letter as going to SA.
I guess we'll never know.
__________________
“What you got, ain’t new.”
Last edited by sigp220.45; 05-07-2021 at 02:45 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-06-2021, 11:44 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 2,211
Likes: 5,830
Liked 1,731 Times in 949 Posts
|
|
Interesting thread. Glad it was brought up again. I didn't have much interest in the Victory revolvers when this was originally posted, but now have several and find the history very interesting.
__________________
Kevin in Oregon
|
05-07-2021, 03:12 PM
|
|
SWCA Member Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,762
Likes: 10,103
Liked 27,996 Times in 8,452 Posts
|
|
The posts by Peter (from SA) in the old thread, #34 and #37, are likely the best explanation available for the absence of both British and SA property stamps of wartime vintage.
Why there are also no post-war commercial proofs can only mean they were not offered for sale as surplus in Britain, for reasons that remain unexplained.
That in itself is not so unusual either, though; we do encounter standard BSR‘s without such proofs here not infrequently. Many served as police or military arms in smaller newly independent nations of the Commonwealth after WW II, and were later gathered up and brought back to the US surplus market by the likes of Sam Cummings without ever seeing Britain again. Before 1968 there would be no import markings.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|