As long as we are having a surge of K-22 threads right now, I thought I would throw in another one to make collectors' hearts beat faster.

I recently learned that S&W may have been experimenting with a K-frame target revolver in .22 LR as early as 1910, a full 20 years before they introduced the K-22 Outdoorsman -- or K-22 first model as the collectors classify it.

According to Walter Roper, who wrote an article dealing with the topic in the May 1944 American Rifleman, the company was interested in producing a .22 target revolver on their medium .38 frame, but had huge problems with accuracy in the prototypes they built. Eventually the program was killed and all prototypes were crushed except one, which was shown to Roper later and seems to have remained under his control (but that's not completely clear).

That gun may now reside in someone's private collection, buried deep and unlikely to reappear. But there's an outside chance it is in circulation and may actually be part of a trading collection someplace. So keep your eyes open for it.

There is a photo which I think is correct because it shows a K-frame revolver that has both a large mushroom-shaped ejector rod knob (which no production K-22 ever had) as well as a retaining pin for a frame-mounted firing pin, as seen on the later K-frame .22 revolvers. The gun has a six-inch barrel, Patridge front sight, and round butt. The stocks carry large deep dish medallions. I believe 1910 is a little early for a Patridge sight, but there are explanations that range from a sight swap at a later date to author's confusion about the actual production date of the prototypes. Author's confusion is a possibility, as there is an inconsistent statement in the article that makes it sound as though the prototyping occurred only one decade before the production K-22 was introduced, not two decades.

If these prototypes were serialized in the regular numbering system, and if Roper is correct about the 1910 date, this gun ought to have a serial number somewhere around 150000-160000 if it was numbered in the .38 HE series, or about 45000-50000 if numbered in the .32-20 HE series. Or it could have had a special ID number completely outside of the standard serialization system.

Anybody care to guess what this one would go far at auction if it turned up?

As a footnote, Roper argued that the gun's accuracy problems were the result of improper twist in the barrel -- 1/10 in the prototype, as opposed to the proper 1/16 twist for a .22 LR. When the K-22 Outdoorsman was introduced, it had a 1/15 twist, according to Roper.

Happy Hunting!

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David Wilson

So that explains the funny K-22 with the prewar features in my safe .

Seriously, an interesting tidbit and another "grail gun" to find.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Was this an adjustable sighted gun, or fixed ala~ the Coastguard guns?

Adjustable. It's definitely a target revolver.

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David Wilson

See post #13 here-
Round butting effect on value

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Thanks Handejector - I have always wanted to know how to cook Woodchuck!

Looks like the menus is set for Christmas Dinner!

To bad all the pics from that post are gone.
DW

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"NUTS"

I saw that gun for sale at the Orlando SWCA meeting for about two hours.... and then it was gone.
I did handle it and we discussed the possabilities of how it got round butt with a grooved backstrap.
AS I recall the theory was that it might have been customized at the S&W factory for Mr. Roper?
Wearing Beautiful Roper target grips as well.....

As I recall it had something like a $4000 price tag and at the time I thought it looked like a pre war 2nd model.

Edited to add, it looked alot like the Heritage 17-7 and I wondered if they used it as a model.

Maybe we will be lucky and they will be reposted.........one can hope.

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Miss Buddies crsides & fat tom

I didn't realize when I opened this thread that this article has been discussed many times over the years. The forum search function is not turning up anything for me this morning, but following the links and discussion from the thread Lee mentioned, it appears that the missing pictures deal with a modified K-22/40 (or Second Model), not the prototype discussed in Roper's article. If Roper's 1910 K-22 is indeed out there, and it sounds as though it was seen in Orlando with Roper stocks on it, it would be great if the current or a former owner would be willing to post pics of it.

Searching other gun forums that are not specifically oriented to S&W I found a reference to a K-22 with the unlikely serial number of 60438; there is said to be no K prefix. It was said to have a round butt and ventilated rib on the barrel. Alas, pics in that forum are also no longer available. I will just note that if this is the Roper specimen, it looks like it would have been numbered in the .32-20 HE series. Also, the ventilated rib makes it sound as though it got a King Super Target Rib attached to it at some point. Other elements of its purported history do not square with these details. For example, it was said to have been purchased new in the late '40s or early '50s.

If anybody has photos of any of the guns we are discussing, please post them. Perhaps they could be added to a forum album so that they won't disappear again if a Photobucket account is modified or deleted.

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David Wilson

I just looked at a pic of this gun in a book I got off flea bay. It says, made on special order for an Army officer about 1912 on a .38 M&P rb frame. The cartridge was much shorter than the cylinder so they rifled the chambers ahead of the bullet with a 1-10 turn. NOT the same as the barrel rifling turn. It caused the bullet to shoot wild. This is from a "Roper" book written in 1945.

This wasn't the gun that had rifeling in the cylinder charge holes was it? Or am I dreaming that up?? Seems I read somewhere of such an early .22 that had rifeling in the cylinder that differed from the rifeling in the barrel (hence the obvious problems with function). I guess the supposition was that the lands and grooves in the cylinder got the bullet spining before it even entered the barrel. That would be a rare bird indeed in the collecting world.

Roger

(sorry combat, I now see your post above confirming same)