You can certainly use .38 S&W cartridges in your revolver - provided you can find any. They may be available in Norway. While still loaded by various manufacturers, .38 S&W cartridges are not widely distributed in the USA and can be very expensive. Whether the grouping performance would improve by using .38 S&W ammunition cannot be answered without finding out for yourself by firing some. However, if you are already using 148 grain hollow base wadcutter bullets in .38 Special, I believe it would be difficult to improve upon their performance, even with a replacement .38 Special cylinder. In the US, a .38 Special replacement cylinder would not be difficult to find, but Norway gun laws may make it impossible for shipment to be made from the US directly to you. Many US gun parts dealers will not ship outside the country.

Thanks for the answer. I wil be able to load my own 38s&w, as soon as I can get a proper die set and rigjt size bullets... I was unsertain if there was posible to use the 38 s&w with good accuracy in the 38spl sylinder.. I will give it a try.. thanks....

It is possible to use .38 Special or 9mm reloading dies for .38 S&W, but not recommended. I use .38 Super dies. Remember that the .38 S&W has a slightly larger bullet diameter than the .38 Special, 0.360-.361" vs. 0.357-.358". Normally that difference does not make much difference in grouping performance, especially at short distances. The hollow-base .38 wadcutter bullet is ideal for use with the 38 S&W as it will expand under pressure to completely fill the bore.

Hello everybody

I just posted this in a seperate thread, but it may be best placed here ?

I have the possibility to acquire a cheap ($ 120) S&W Victory post-auction here in Switzerland.

It is described as US ordnance S&W Military and Police, .38 S&W, barrel length 5 inches, steel, phosphate finish (Parkerized?), stamped US PROPERTY G.H.D., smooth wood grips, serial nbr V334111

Image received from auction house





The markings look strange compared to my 1943 Colt 1911 A1, then again I don't know anything abt. these (but willing to learn ).

Any opinions, idea of year built? Is it really .38 S&W and not .38 Special ?

Thanks

SN V334111 would date its shipment from S&W from June or July 1943. The stamping on the topstrap is correct, and indicates that it was a Lend-Lease revolver supplied to the British Commonwealth military during WWII. G.H.D. are the initials of (Col) Guy H. Drewry, who was in charge of the U. S. Army Ordnance Department's Springfield District. Indeed it is chambered in .38 S&W (which was the standard British military revolver cartridge, called by them the .380 Revolver, Mk2). When imported into the US in the 1950s and 1960s, these revolvers were often re-chambered to accept .38 S&W Special cartridges. Hopefully, this one has not been re-chambered, as that modification destroys its collectible value. Yours appears to be original and in better than average condition. In the U. S., $120 would be an unbelievably low price, as in that condition, and if original, it would typically sell here in the range of $400 to $500 USD.

Thanks a lot DWalt. appreciate the infos, guess I will buy it; will post pics when received. Guess it is not to difficult to strip and clean inside ?

After years of collecting modern weaponry, I am getting more and more attracted to older stuff, probably in line with me not getting any younger.

Already bought a 1943 Colt 1911 A1 with GHD stamp last year, so they should pair nicely. Also fell for a fullauto Thompson (Savage made) 1928 A1.

Thanks again for links, very good reading. Clearly you are THE Victory specialist. How many guns are in the database ?

Switzerland is a gun country, with a militia army, a solid tradition of shooting, with service rifles being kept at home, and available to soldiers when they finish their service for a very modest fee (full autos being converted to semi auto only).

Swiss attics are full of K11 & 31, Sig 510 & 550, as well as the whole array of Swiss issue handguns. A guy at the local range just bought a Sig P 210 army for 500.-

So modern guns are easy to obtain ... if you have the money, especially for US made guns. There is one exclusive importer for Colt, so a 1911 typically costs 2 grand, same for a Kimber. My Auto Ordnance 1911 GI replica cost me 950 vs 500 in the States. I did not check S&W revolver prices lately (dislike the IL), but they are not cheap either. ITAR has also slowed down imports tremendously, sometimes orders take a year to arrive.

Then there is a solid second hand market with more offer than demand in my opinion. The elders say that the youth is not so interested in guns and shooting. You can find good deals like 1 grand nice Pythons, plenty of reasonably priced S&W 19, 27, 29, FN HPs and so on. And you can bargain.

As to full auto weapons, unlike the US (1986 act?), they are legal to own under certain circumstances (sizeable collection, serious security and safe storage) but very difficult to shoot. You have to ask for a special permit for a specific date (cost 100.-) and a range that agrees. Not easy.

So there is a good supply of all kinds of full auto weapons, old and new (M16, AK 47, HK G33 & MP5, Glock 18, Sten, UZI, modern SIGs etc) at reasonable prices (typically 2 to 3 grands).

The 1928 A1 cost me 2200. The modern semi auto only version is sold for 2700, so it was an easy decision for me. Still awaiting permit and delivery , here is a picture from the auction house, comes with another two straight mags (20&30 rds).



Sorry for thread drift though

Here's one for the database. Victory model, 5", in .38 s&w, with "Osterreich Polizei" stamped on the left side of the frame. The serial number is V510455. Any in fo would be appreciated.

One of the better-preserved Austrian police Victorys I've come across. I almost thought it might have been refinished, but when I saw your last photo, I realized it was the lighting in the first two pictures. No question it's a nice original, except for the ill-fitting grip panels.
They were supplied to local police in the British- and the US-occupied sectors of Austria after 1945. One of the database experts will be able to tell you when it shipped originally.

V510455 suggests early 1944 as a shipping date. There was an article several months ago in the American Rifleman about the Victories used during the post-WWII occupation period. The grips on the one pictured do not appear to be S&W grips.

I should have that issue on hand. I'll have to wrangle it up.

I didn't think the stocks were original. The original stocks would be of the non-checkered variety? Thanks for the date on the gun.

Yes, smooth walnut stocks on the VMs. These appear to be off a Spanish K frame M & P copy.

Thanks to all (ordanceguy, LWCmdr45, DWalt) for the 1000 posts!

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Hello all! My name is Michael and I'm new to this forum. Interestingly, I came upon this thread a few days before I found a Victory Model for sale locally. I'm looking at the possibility of purchasing it. The serial number is V341507. It is in very good condition, parkerized, 4" barrel, does NOT have original grips (magnas) and is missing the lanyard swivel. I have not been able to confirm matching serial numbers.

I'd like to post a few short questions;
1) He is asking $400 for the gun, good price?
2) About what year would this have been manufactured?

From what I've read here I'm thinking 1943ish but I don't see alot of conversation regarding price or value. Of course, I understand that 'its worth what someone will pay for it' and 'condition is everything' so I'm just looking for a thumbs up or down on the asking price.

Thanks in advance!

With these two strikes against it (the missing swivel and the missing original grips) I would consider $400 too high, definitely if all remaining serial numbers don't match. But it is not outrageous. Just as a comparative example, a couple of weeks ago a gun of same type and, from the sound of your description, like condition, went on GB for $407, after lively bidding, and that one had mismatched-numbered, but type-correct stocks and no serial on a re-finished or replacement barrel.
Very good condition complete (original stocks, swivel, serial matching in all five locations) have been going for upward of $450 to 500 the past few months in various places.

"NO! According to S&W if the firearm was manufactured before 1977 +P ammo was not recommended."

LOL

Here's a 1942 VM (Navy contract with damaged 4" barrel swapped for a 5" tube that came on a 1939 commercial revolver, already in the data base) pictured with some of the thousands of +P and +P+ I fired through it for fun.

The +P hysteria continues...

__________________
No life story has happy end.

I'd like to add to this and see if anyone would have any rough guesses as to the history.

Idk what year it is. It has U.S. Navy stamped on the top strap. On the bottom of the frame, between the grips, an unidentifiable letter/number on the far left with a V a little to the right of it. It looks like a backwards C but has some marking at the base of the letter/number. On the other side of the lanyard ring, it has the serial 237305

On the frame thats exposed when you open the cylinder (that the crane covers up) it has the letter X and below that 87404.
On the actual crane it has the same number as above but with the letter S below that.

Here's an album of photos showing everything I've mentioned: http://imgur.com/a/1RP7F

All I know is it was my grandfather's who was a naval communication officer in the pacific theater.

That's a nice Navy Victory. The SN would date its shipment to about February 1943. Incidentally, I have that one's SN on my SN list. Did you make a previous posting here about it?

Most military Victories chambered in in .38 Special went to the Navy. Those built under Navy contracts had SNs up to about V267xxx, thereafter, those designated for Navy use were procured under Army contracts and had the more generic United States Property or U. S. Property topstrap stampings. Even though the Navy-marked Victories are not that unusual or rare (around 70,000-80,000 were made), they do have considerable collector interest and command a price premium if original, as yours appears to be.

The little symbol ahead of the V on the grip is called the Ordnance Flaming Bomb. It's an acceptance stamping.

Navy-marked Victories are generally worthwhile enough to justify getting a factory letter ($50).

Its quite possible I have posted here in the past. Has been a while since I posted anything to this forum. Got the spark after seeing another victory model elsewhere and tried to do some reading.

Thank you for all the info, that was more than I expected. I've always wanted to get the factory letter, just haven't got around to it. When I do however, I will post it up here. As far as value, this has an unimaginable value to me that exceeds what any market price could bring. Thanks again for the information.

Hi

Another one I saw here at a LGS, he agreed to me taking pictures and posting.

Seems to be a 5 inch, caliber .38 S&W, finish is in very nice condition, but with wrong grips I guess and missing lanyard loop (and expensive too).

Serial number V 141097

Hello Everyone,

Thought I'd ad my Victory Model to the database. A very original 38 special S/N V138383. Numbers matching on the grips, barrel, cylinder, star. Flaming bomb proof mark on bottom of frame. No other markings. Any additional info would be appreciated.

Larry

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With no topstrap property stamping, it's probably a DSC revolver which probably shipped about Oct or Nov 1942.

DWalt:
Do you by any chance know who applied the flaming bomb and what type of proofing it testifies to? It appears as the sole butt mark on many DSC Victorys, and is generally referred to as an ordnance mark, although that would imply a military connection which a lot of the DSC guns never had since they were shipped directly to a civilian end user.
In other contexts, I've only encountered the flaming bomb in connection with military arsenals, specifically the Springfield armory.

The "Ordnance Bomb" or "Flaming Bomb" stamp was not a proof marking or acceptance marking. Rather it was an inspection marking, used on a wide variety of weapons, either provisional (prior to proof) or final inspection, depending upon circumstances and location of weapon manufacture. Proof marking on Victories was usually a "P" on the butt until about mid-1943, thereafter, moved to the left upper frame, rear cylinder face, and bottom flat on barrel. The Flaming Bomb (inspection) was stamped on the butt, also until around mid-1943, and later moved to the top strap. Acceptance marking for Victories would be the initials, W.B. on top strap, or G.H.D., in several locations - either butt or top strap.
------------------
DSC guns received the Ordnance Bomb inspection stamping, even though they were intended for civilian use. But not the acceptance stamp. Also, the earluer Navy-stamped revolvers had no Ordnance Bomb stamping nor acceptance stamping.

Top to bottom L-R

1. marked p flaming bomb WB 955937 5” #United States Property” 38 S&W
2. marked V 14232 4” no top markings 38 Special
3. marked 998718 4” no top marking 38 Special
4. marked SV 775441 Right side plate S top marked Flaming Bomb US property GHD 4” 38 Special
5. Sold
6 marked V 226212 4" top marked US Navy 38 Special
7. marked V 135412 4” top marked US Navy side marked Property of US Navy in Red
Any information would be appreciated.
[URL=http://s29.photobucket.com/user/Blockislander/media/Victory/DSC_0007_zpsefijdgtm.jpg.html][/URL

1. marked p flaming bomb WB 955937 5” #United States Property” 38 S&W
2. marked V 14232 4” no top markings 38 Special
3. marked 998718 4” no top marking 38 Special
4. marked SV 775441 Right side plate S top marked Flaming Bomb US property GHD 4” 38 Special
5. Sold
6 marked V 226212 4" top marked US Navy 38 Special
7. marked V 135412 4” top marked US Navy side marked Property of US Navy in Red

1. British .38/200 pre-Victory, .38 S&W, shipped approximately March 1942
2. Probable DSC Victory revolver (or possibly U. S. Maritime Commission), shipped about June-July 1942.
3. Same as #2, pre-Victory, shipped about June 1942
4. Late war SV-series Victory, with improved drop safety incorporated beginning in early 1945. Not possible to be accurate on shipping date without a factory letter, but sometime in 1945. These are somewhat uncommon in military configuration. Worth getting a factory letter on this one.
5. N/A
6. Later Navy-stamped Victory, probable shipment in January 1943
7. Red-letter Navy Victory, shipped about Oct-Nov 1942. Red-painted frame engraving not applied by S&W. Probably legitimate, but reason for double Navy property marking is unclear.

#s 4, 6, and 7 are worthy of getting factory letters.

Thank you so much for the information. I will get letters on those that you recommended.
Paul

bump for a thread that should be a sticky

I've got a Victory to add to the database. It's no beauty queen, but it's mine. If the experts can share a little background information about this gun, it would help me enjoy it more, and I would appreciate knowing a little more of its history.

- Serial # V 366738 on both the butt and the bottom of the barrel.
- No extra markings of any kind. I can only see: Smith & Wesson on the left side of the barrel, 38 S&W ctg on the right side (And it's still chambered that way. It won't take 38 Special), Made in U.S.A. on the right side of the frame, and the S&W logo on the right side of the frame. That's all I found.
- Nickle finish
- 4" barrel
- Lanyard loop has been ground off.
- Plastic, imitation stag grips.

Thank you!

V 366738 would date shipment to be ca. mid-1943. If the barrel is indeed stamped .38 S&W CTG, that would make it a 38/200 British service revolver. However, a 4" barrel is suspicious, as those normally have 5" barels. Did you measure length from the front face of the cylinder? Also, there should be a U. S. PROPERTY stamping on the topstrap. It would most definitely not have left the factory with a nickel plated finish or plastic grips. Yours has been seriously messed with and has no collector value, only what someone would pay for a shooter.

Thanks, DWalt for the information you provided.
Yes - It has a true 4" barrel, but I went back and looked closely at the crown, and it's not quite perfect all the way around. Also, near the base of the front sight the top of the barrel has some slight file marks. I would bet that the barrel was cut down, recrowned, and the front sight relocated. It's not a bad job, but it's not anywhere close to perfect. Unless you had pointed it out, though, I would not have noticed it.
I looked really hard for any signs of U.S. PROPERTY on the top strap and for any signs of it being filed off, and I came up empty. Both sides of the top strap look symmetrical and perfect.
So. . . is the best guess that this gun went to the UK in mid 1943, and served in some capacity. Then after the war it got sold on the surplus market where someone "demilitarized" it by making these modifications to increase its resale value. Then it got sold back to the US market, and has been wandering around ever since?
I'm curious why they didn't ream out the chambers to take 38 Special. For the US market, I would think that caliber change would have been really important for resale value. Any thoughts on that from anyone? Thanks!

I cannot say how many of the surplus BSRs imported in the 1950s and 1960s had their chambers reamed to .38 Special, But I imagine a majority did. The U. S. PROPERTY topstrap stamping is usually fairly light and easily buffed off. My guess that when yours was plated, that is what happened.

Those sold off by the British normally had a series of proof stampings applied to comply with British law prior to sale. Those "Duffel Bag Specials" brought back by GIs did not have proof markings. Rememmber that in those days, A US GI might get such a revolver in exchange for a carton of cigarettes, and it is not unusual to find un-proofed BSRs. Yours may well have been one of those, modified by plating and barrel shortening by its owner at some later time, but leaving the chambering original. Unfortunately, there will never be any way to know how it arrived on these shores and what happened to it afterward.

While those BSRs with original un-bored chambers are more desirable, ammunition supply problems exist. While .38 S&W ammunition is still factory loaded, it's not so easily found in most areas, and is somewhat expensive when found, unlike .38 Special. There are internet sources for .38 S&W, but the shipping costs for small amounts are high.

Thank you DWalt for your perspective and information. I already reload for 38 S&W, and my purpose for this gun is to serve as a pleasant way to shoot this mild caliber. Since it has no collector value, I won't have to baby it. I can just use it, and enjoy shooting it. The plastic, stag grips will go in a ziplock bag, and they will be replaced with a set of Hogue grips, which will be more comfortable. (I'm assuming that the frame on the Victory model is the same size as a regular, square butt K frame. If that's wrong, I would appreciate someone posting a correction.)

Yes, the BSR uses the square butt K frame same as the US Victories. Here is a picture of my Victory with some aftermarket K frame magnas.

__________________
Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

K-frames made between 1914 and 1944 were the same, except for some minor changes and cosmetics, and of course calibers and barrel lengths. In 1945, a major change to the hammer drop safety was added.

Just got home after purchasing another Victory Model. No pics yet.
S/N V4188**. 4 inch barrel. .38 S&W Special CTG. Ammo Symbol & "U.S. PROPERTY GHD" on top strap. All serial numbers match in the right places. Unfortunately re "parkerized" but not overdone. Action is like new. Lanyard ring is missing but the hole is not plugged. I'm thinking 1943 United States Armed Services model. No british proof marks of any kind.

V4188** would have shipped about September 1943. If the barrel is 4" and caliber-stamped 38 Special it is one of the US military revolvers, most likely Navy. Depending upon what you paid, the re-phosphating may not hurt value too much if it's a good job.

Thanx for the feedback. I attached some photos. The refinish was very well done. The only way I could tell was some of the lettering on the barrel patents were filled in slightly as well as the large S&W logo on the side plate.

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I got a very good Model 1917, Brazilian Contract version the other day. I attached some pics. Don't know if this is the forum to ask this. I read these versions are not very popular but I can't believe this. I've seen 2 of these over the past months. I bought the 2nd one I saw. Everything is original except the grips. All serial numbers match and the action is like new. A little scratched up but I think this adds character to this shooter. I think this gun was shipped in 1937/38. Part of the original Brazilian purchase.

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You should get a pair of correct smooth grips. It's entirely possible that before it was re-finished it was in far worse cosmetic condition. Unlike re-bluing, i personally feel that a good re-phosphated finish on a Victory in formerly shabby condition is no major sin and not that detrimental to value provided the revolver is otherwise sound and not otherwise desecrated, such as having a chopped barrel and/or rechambered cylinder.

Victories were intended to be mass-produced, cheap, rugged, and functional no-frills revolvers for combat service manufactured under wartime conditions, not rare objects of beauty like a 99% Registered Magnum. So I believe a competent refinish to restore them to their original appearance shouldn't be a big negative to value. I'd feel the same way about a well-used WWII M1911A1. In fact I ran across a pair of near zero%-condition (but complete) M1911A1s for $400 each this weekend, and I strongly considered buying at least one of them with the intent of doing a phosphate refinish. But I didn't.

Grips are on order as well as a lanyard ring with pin.

Thanx

can i get some info on my victory model

Need your opinion. Just got in the grips for my latest Victory model. See attached. Looks good even with the lanyard ring I installed. What do you think?

I also posted a picture from another Victory model I have. I didn't notice the "P" under the grips. Any ideas?
This piece is a pre Victory BSR purchased by the Canadian military thru a defense contractor. I asked you the info earlier in this thread. S/N 9488**.

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I just bought Victory from a local gunshop. It's serial number is V505606. Barrel, frame, cylinder, and grips match.

The 5 inch barrel has 38 S.W. CTG on the right side. Gun is blued (maybe re-blued?) It has a lanyard ring. The hammer and trigger are not blued (case hardened?). The grips are smooth walnut. 38 Special will not chamber.

It has an Austrian police mark on the left side and P marks on the barrel, upper portion of the frame on the right side, and the back of the cylinder. There is no stamp on the top left hand side of the gun that would indicate US ownership. No flaming bomb. All other stamps are pretty sharp.

I'm wondering if perhaps the gun may have been refinished to remove that marking or any other Austrian markings. If soemone did refinish, they did a pretty good job.

I paid $325 for it to be a shooter not a collectible. Trigger pull is incredibly smooth.

Thanks in advance for any info you can help find.

Recently added Victory Model s/n V130xx to my collection. It's a 5" barrel, gray parkerized, .38 S&W, plain walnut grips, w/lanyard swivel. Serial number's on base of grip, inner side of right grip panel, underside of barrel and rear face of cylinder. US Ordnance Department flaming bomb and inspector's initials (W.B.) on base of grip. No US Property, US Navy, Broad Arrow, or importer's markings. Any thoughts regarding month/year of manufacture or wartime user? Thanks in advance for any info

Hello, I have a S&W Victory model .38. Number V38249. I know I can get a letter from S&W for $50 for exact detail, but was wondering if someone could help narrow down the year. Thanks

V38249 would have shipped about July 1942. With a SN that low, it would probably (but not necessarily) be chambered in .38 S&W, have a 5" barrel, and be a .38/200 British service revolver. But you haven't provided enough detail for a firm ID or a picture. Getting a factory letter would probably not be the best use for a spare $50 bill.

Wow! 1942? Amazing. Thanks, DWalt appreciate the response. I think I can rustle up $50.

5" Victory #V1948 in .38 S&W. Gun has been nickel plated and it looks like the hammer and trigger have been changed. Grips are not original to this gun but all numbers (barrel, frame and cylinder) match.

This gun is accurate with Remington 146 gr. ammo but shoots slightly high with 146 gr. reloads.

I bought this gun several years ago because it was the cheapest S&W ($100) that I have ever purchased (and that includes guns going back 40+ years).

Mark

It appears the hammer has been "jeweled", as that is what the swirled circles are called. The trigger may also be, but I cannot tell from the picture. The grips appear to be from the 1911-1919 period. It's worth more than $100 as a shooter. 3ME Jeweling

Found at small gunshow on Saturday. Australian 38 S&W ctg. Victory. S/N V91350 numbers matching on all metal. Includes numbered box gun was shipped to importer in with broad arrow marked cleaning rod and old pamphlet describing Australian Victory model. Markings as follows: s/n on butt, under 5" bbl, under extractor, back of cylinder. Barrel marked with patent info on top, 38 S&W Ctg on right side of barrel. Right frame marked MADE IN USA, D/|\D, FTR MA53, /|\ 2L, S&W logo. Frame bottom /|\. Frame top UNITED STATES PROPERTY. Left frame VEGA SAC CA. Butt V91350 flaming bomb and P swivel present. Smooth well fitting non matching numbered grips. As new at FTR Parkerized finish. Case hardened trigger and hammer. Bright bore. Paid$425. Any information appreciated.