S&W Mother of Pearl grips?

delmaxfield · #1 11-01-2012, 12:50 AM

Is there anyway to determine whether Mother of Pearl grip are genuine S&W? I have seen some For Sale guns that say S&W Mother of Pearl (with no S&W Medallion) and I have seen some Mother of Pearl grips that have the Medallion. Is there any sure way to know??

Hondo44 · #2 11-01-2012, 02:09 AM

Yes. With medallions=S&W. No medallions=not S&W. One of the very few clear cut things about Smiths.

opoefc · #3 11-01-2012, 02:24 AM

There are many S&W revolvers with original factory pearl grips with no medallions, as the medallion were not introduced until 1894. After that, Jim's info. above is correct. Factory pearls on guns made before 1894 can sometimes be identified as factory by two things (1) a factory letter says the gun was shipped with pearl grips, and (2) the grips are numbered to the gun, usually in pencil. The pearl quality in factory grips was very high and the grips were somewhat thicker than pearls installed by distributors. The top quality pearl was sometimes very hard to acquire and there are letters in the S&W archives declining an order for pearls on a gun due to lack of pearl shells that met S&Ws standards. Ed

Hondo44 · #4 11-01-2012, 02:33 AM

delmaxfield,
You can take what Ed says to the bank! I responded in the context of this section that you posted in: 1896 to 1961. I almost asked what vintage you were asking about so do you have a vintage in mind?

delmaxfield · #5 11-01-2012, 02:08 PM

Jim,
Thanks. I understand.
I also appreciate the feedback because there have been several guns For Sale online with Pearl Grips claiming to be factory. Serial Numbers indicating in the '50's. Both Model 36 and Terrier's. Interesting too, they tend to be Nickel.
Del
SWCA#2635

SDH · #6 11-01-2012, 02:16 PM

What about the late 20s period when S&W had no medallions, but pearl was still very much in favor?

hsguy · #7 11-01-2012, 06:03 PM

Here is a label that is inside the box for a 3rd Model Single Shot that shipped about 1910 if I recall correctly. Thought you might find it interesting.

smithfelty · #8 11-01-2012, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hsguy

Here is a label that is inside the box for a 3rd Model Single Shot that shipped about 1910 if I recall correctly. Thought you might find it interesting.

Great post, thank you

Hondo44 · #9 11-01-2012, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delmaxfield

Jim,
Thanks. I understand.
I also appreciate the feedback because there have been several guns For Sale online with Pearl Grips claiming to be factory. Serial Numbers indicating in the '50's. Both Model 36 and Terrier's. Interesting too, they tend to be Nickel.
Del
SWCA#2635

These little shooters are very often found with after market pearls (and ivory) but there were very few factory pearls post war, the bulk being in the pre war years.

Sebago Son · #10 11-01-2012, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hsguy

Here is a label that is inside the box for a 3rd Model Single Shot that shipped about 1910 if I recall correctly. Thought you might find it interesting.

These are from my Ladysmith...

I cannot imagine how impossibly difficult it was to manufacture these tiny stock panels.

Drew

Hondo44 · #11 11-02-2012, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDH

What about the late 20s period when S&W had no medallions, but pearl was still very much in favor?

I'm glad you asked that question, because it wasn't addressed.

Medallions were 1st introduced in 1894 for use in premium stocks, i.e., pearl and ivory which all had them before c. 1910 when there were no medallions used in wood stocks. Again from c.1920 to c.1930 only wood stocks were supplied with out medallions. This is my understanding from S&W catalogs and option lists from that period. As always I'm open to other opinions and additional documentation.

Hard rubber stocks always had only the embossed logo.

opoefc · #12 05-13-2015, 11:47 PM

Jim is correct, factory installed pearl stocks in the 1920s had medallions. If you have a 1920-30s shipped gun that letters as shipped with pearls and it now has non-medalion pearls, the original medallion pearl stocks were replaced at sometime after it left S&W. Also, factory pearl stocks were not sold separately. If you had a S&W w/o peals and wanted pearl stocks, you had to send the gun back to S&W to have them fitted. Ed.

STCM(SW) · #13 05-14-2015, 12:04 AM

This is how you get proof....

DWalt · #14 05-14-2015, 08:46 AM

Something I have always wondered about, but on a low level, was how MOP grips were made. MOP is a smooth interior shell lining of various molluscs (oysters, mussels, etc.), so how is it removed and made into stocks (or any other MOP items)? Did S&W manufacture their own grips or obtain them from an outside source?

I also remember reading something that S&W supplied MOP stocks in the post-WWII period without medallions.

Hondo44 · #15 05-16-2015, 04:18 AM

Grip makers bid for the best quality, largest of MOP shells. The different sized grip patterns are transferred to shells that they fit with the least amount of waste, and sawed out of the shell to rough shape. These are then rough sanded to remove the course outer 'bark', contoured to the intended style, and flat sanded on the bottom surface. It's not always possible to get the entire bottom flat or too much shell would be wasted. Therefore some grips retain the original inner surface contours of the shell. Then the grips are fine sanded, fitted to grip frames, and finally polished on buffing wheels. MOP is easily worked and similar to stag antler and ivory.

It's true that MOP grips are more fragile and subject to chipping or fracturing when dropped, especially with the weight of a handgun attached to them. Not recommended for hard recoiling calibers especially if not properly and snugly fit.

MOP is called mother of pearl because it is the shell of those certain shell fish that produce pearls. Pearls are formed from a bit of sand or foreign body that gets inside the shell and is an irritant. So it becomes coated with mucous to protect the animal from it. This is the same substance that also lines the interior of the animal's protective shell as it grows. As layer after layer is laid down, it calcifies or hardens over several years forming the pearlescent layers.

When the animals are harvested for the pearls formed around the foreign bits of sand or whatever, the shells themselves are also harvested to make all manner of items as we've all seen. The large and flat enough pieces are made into larger objects like hair combs, backs of hair brushes, pill boxes, gun grips, etc. While smaller pieces and scraps are used for ornamentation of jewelry, pearl buttons, inlays in wood, and many other things. The larger the piece of shell, the more valuable it is to make larger objects. Hence larger pieces for the bigger grips for Colt Bisley and 1911 cost more than smaller grips.

andyinlz · #16 02-13-2019, 04:51 PM

Yes, I know this thread is a bit aged........but it does not address (nor do other threads) a question I've had for some time.

Namely, when did the medallions on MOPs switch from small to large?

And, was this frame-size dependent?

Last, I ask not out of idle curiosity, but because I found a set of large medallion (.500 inch) gold MOPs that cleaned up nicely and have a temporary home on my Model 1899 Target that shipped in 1902 (which letters with checkered walnut grips--see my WTB ad for same).

My best guess is that the large gold medallion MOPs began around 1911---but thought that the experts here may actually know the answer.

Thanks in advance.

delcrossv · #17 02-13-2019, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hsguy

Here is a label that is inside the box for a 3rd Model Single Shot that shipped about 1910 if I recall correctly. Thought you might find it interesting.

I have a 2nd model M frame Ladysmith with its original box that says just that. The gun however has nice, but non medallion, aftermarket pearls on it.

A lot were installed by gunshops at customer request. I've also seen them mostly on nickel guns. My daughter thinks they're "pimptastic".

andyinlz · #18 02-13-2019, 05:24 PM

That is pretty much--and maybe even verbatim--the language I have seen in the 1900 S&W catalog.

Hard to tell, though, whether the associated pix reflects large or small medallions...........but my guess would be "large".

Last, I do not mind if my 1899 Target is sporting slightly newer grips. The large gold medallion MOP is better than the jigged bone it came with, and the MOP has almost a soft internal glow that really sets off the blue of the gun.

Hondo44 · #19 02-13-2019, 08:10 PM

• The recessed gold plated brass medallion (.400") on MOP stocks became standard after the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago where S&W had a very large display of their revolvers. MOP grips were not offered for N frames.

• Recessed gold plated brass Medallions used from 1910 in walnut; on MOP (except N frames) (.500” K frame & .400" M, I, etc.) likely from 1893:

• Large .500" recessed gold used on N frames (no MOP), and walnut to ~1920/MOP K frames thru ~1930 then changed to .500” flat gold.

• No medallions were used on walnut grips ~1920 to 1930, but still used on MOP.

• Smaller .400" medallions used on M & I frames, and on K frames after ~1930.

After WWII premium grips (MOP, ivory & stag) were no longer offered in the S&W catalog w/ medallions but walnut grips for all frame sizes used the new curved, nickel plated brass .400" size.

andyinlz · #20 02-14-2019, 07:37 AM

And, to be specific, what size medallions were used on MOPs before 1910?

Was the size the same for all frames?

And, "unknown" or "subject to dispute" are also terrific answers.

Thanks.

bracebeemer · #21 02-14-2019, 08:17 AM

I thought I would just add a few pictures of my second model I-frame Target .32 with factory pearl grips and shipped in 1906. I also have another .32 second model target with the black hard rubber target grips shipped in 1908. Bill

Hondo44 · #22 02-14-2019, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyinlz

And, to be specific, what size medallions were used on MOPs before 1910?

Was the size the same for all frames?

And, "unknown" or "subject to dispute" are also terrific answers.

Thanks.

I have edited my post #19.

andyinlz · #23 02-14-2019, 07:34 PM

Do I read the revised post correctly that .500 gold MOP medallions were not used until ~1930?

Hondo44 · #24 02-14-2019, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyinlz

Do I read the revised post correctly that .500 gold MOP medallions were not used until ~1930?

Yes if they're flat gold medallions and very rare.

Or are they recessed?

handejector · #25 02-14-2019, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyinlz

Do I read the revised post correctly that .500 gold MOP medallions were not used until ~1930?

I don't think you are reading it correctly.
.5" Gold recessed medallions were used on wood starting around 1910, and were definitely being used on K frame Pearls by 1910. I happen to believe the .5" recessed gold meds were used on K frame pearls before 1910. I'm not yet sure how much before, but maybe 1905-06.

paplinker · #26 02-14-2019, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondo44

Yes if they're flat gold medallions and very rare.

Or are they recessed?

Are these the same medallion as on some Tuskoid magnas
?

Hondo44 · #27 02-15-2019, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyinlz

Do I read the revised post correctly that .500 gold MOP medallions were not used until ~1930?

I revised my post once again. See if it makes more sense now.

Hondo44 · #28 02-15-2019, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paplinker

Are these the same medallion as on some Tuskoid magnas
?

• Gold plate over brass recessed medallions ordered reinstated in wood stocks but with ‘convex’ stock circles on 2/11/1929;

3/18/29 changed to flush mounted, flat gold plated;

and then finally changed April 1929 to flush mounted, flat chrome plated over brass thru WW II.

Large flat, flush mounted .500" chrome medallion in walnut K stocks c. 1930 and serial numbers in the 61X,XXX range are rare only because they were soon reduced in size to the smaller .400” size due to wood breakage on the Service stocks. Once the Magnas were introduced c. 1936 the .500” size would have been no problem on K frame stocks.

So the Tuskoid magnas did not make an appearance until well after the very short window of gold med usage. All those I've seen, and that's just a few, had .500" flat silvers.

andyinlz · #29 02-15-2019, 09:58 AM

Thanks for the expanded and clarified history lessons above.

It makes me believe that the .500 gold MOPs I have put on my Model 1899 (delivered in 1902) may be period accurate after all!

I will, though, keep looking for the non-medallion concave checkered wood grips it shipped with.......

Hondo44 · #30 02-15-2019, 09:10 PM

Beautiful grips, that's for certain.

Have we talked about there being a serial # on the back of the right grip?

That would definitely help date them!

andyinlz · #31 02-16-2019, 02:06 AM

No serial number.

Maybe a single "H" or "4".

paplinker · #32 02-21-2019, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondo44

• Gold plate over brass recessed medallions ordered reinstated in wood stocks but with ‘convex’ stock circles on 2/11/1929;

3/18/29 changed to flush mounted, flat gold plated;

and then finally changed April 1929 to flush mounted, flat chrome plated over brass thru WW II.

Large flat, flush mounted .500" chrome medallion in walnut K stocks c. 1930 and serial numbers in the 61X,XXX range are rare only because they were soon reduced in size to the smaller .400” size due to wood breakage on the Service stocks. Once the Magnas were introduced c. 1936 the .500” size would have been no problem on K frame stocks.

So the Tuskoid magnas did not make an appearance until well after the very short window of gold med usage. All those I've seen, and that's just a few, had .500" flat silvers.

I just happened across this thread. Unless its a bad pic I think they look like a gold set of medallions.

Non-Registered Magnum w/Tuskoid Grips

handejector · #33 02-21-2019, 06:24 PM

Some Tuskoid grips came with flush gold medallions. Some came with flush silver medallions. I have seen both varieties.

You can see both in this thread-
Smith & Wesson Tuskoid / Tuscoid Grips

Hondo44 · #34 02-21-2019, 08:04 PM

Lee,

Thank you for confirming that. That's a thread that completely got by me. Apparently Smith had some old inventory squirreled away for "special" occasions like Tuskoid stocks on RMs.