FBI's "Frank" Baughman - New Documents

L

lw

Absent Comrade
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
59
Reaction score
202
Location
Danville, Kentucky
Hi again folks, happy holidays and a happy upcoming New Year!

Many here are familiar with SA Thomas "Frank" Baughman of the FBI and I've recently received via an FOIA request a copy of his application to the Bureau dated in 1919 which I thought some might find of interest. I've posted the app to my website and you can go here to see/download a copy of it:
FBI Application Of Thomas Frank Baughman, 1919 - Dusty Roads Of An FBI Era

More about Baughman is in the bio section at the site and he is seen in a few of the photos at the photo gallery section. Seems his origin was in Kentucky and he spent some time at the Front in France during WWI.

While I believe an occasional handgun(s) of his does surface once in a while on here and other forums, in looking into his background, I've never really been able to account for what weapons he owned when he died in the early 1970's in Florida. If you can assist with this info, I'd appreciate a direct email to me at: [email protected]

The only surviving relative I've found of his is a great granddaughter from one of his two marriages however she knew very little about him.

Enjoy the ride ....
Larry Wack
Retired FBI ('68-'03)
 
Register to hide this ad
Larry
The Baughman stuff is very interesting. This is the first I knew about your site. I glanced through it and found it fascinating. It now has a bookmark in my browser. I will be spending time there. Thank you so much for compiling this information. You have done a good service for all of us history buffs.
Jack
 
Hi
Here is a picture of one of franks guns this one was displayed at the 2011 NRA
and won a Silver metal. It was one of the first Registered made.
Jim Fisher

bmg60-albums-1950-44-special-nickel-picture8281-frank-baughmans-gun-n-no-2jpg.jpg
 
That 1933 letter is somewhat confusing, aside from the errors - grams instead of grains, foot seconds instead of ft/second, etc. It also says the 158 grain .38 Special load is 1125 "foot seconds" (sic), and unless it was a .38/44 load, that seems way too high. And then later it talks about the .38/44 Colt Special and not the .38/44 S&W Special. I have no idea if there was such a thing as a .38/44 "Colt" Special, but I doubt it. I do know there was a .38 Colt Special cartridge, which was exactly the same as the .38 S&W Special, except that it had a flat point, not round-nosed as the .38 S&W Special was. And a flat point bullet of the same weight as a round bullet, at the same MV, would have exactly the same kinetic energy. All in all, the letter is confusing, imprecise, and not terribly enlightening regarding the choice between the .38 Special and the .45 ACP. If I had been J. Edgar and had received such a sloppy report, I would have called SAC Keith on the carpet.
 
" Colt sort of re-named the 38 S&W Special and said their revolvers would shoot both the .38 S&W Special and the .38 Colt Special, which were the same round. Same for the .38/44."

Not quite. As I previously noted, the .38 Colt Special had a flat-point bullet, but was most definitely not a Keith-style SWC design. But the ballistics were the same as the .38 S&W Special. Manufacturers making the .38 Colt Special ammunition actually marked their boxes as .38 Colt Special (but except for very early ones, cases were usually headstamped only as ".38 Special"). However, I have never run across any box marked as containing .38 Colt Special which gave any indication that it was "Hi-Speed", "Super X", "Super Speed" or any other indicia of being a high velocity (.38/44) loading. I can't say for sure that there were no such boxes, but I have never seen one.

In any event, it is very unclear that the 1125 "foot seconds" loading shown was a typical standard load or a high velocity load. I have to assume it was the latter. But there is still no excuse for such a poor report. The FBI would certainly have had access to far better ballistic expertise, even in 1933, than this amateurish letter demonsrates.
 
Last edited:
Thank you very much for the link, that is some fascinating reading. I was drawn to the article on the Thompsen SMG and its adoption and noted that there were references to S&W Automatics being issued by the FBI prior to 1934. I would presume these are the .35 autos. I had not heard of them being issued by any law enforcement agency in the past.
 
by several trade names, including the one you say you have not heard before, the ".38/44 Colt Hi-Speed")


I do not see that designation in the catalog cut.
".38 Special (Using in the same arm .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt. .38 Colt Special, .38 Colt Special Hi-Speed, .38 S&W Special (full and mid-range loads), .38 S&W Special High Velocity, .38-44 S&W Special.)

No .38/44 Colt Hi-Speed.
 
Shawn, please re-read my posting. It does NOT say what you attributed it as saying. I will repeat it so you get it correct this time, but if you had bothered to read it the first time this would not be necessary:

"However, I have never run across any box marked as containing .38 Colt Special which gave any indication that it was "Hi-Speed", "Super X", "Super Speed" or any other indicia of being a high velocity (.38/44) loading. I can't say for sure that there were no such boxes, but I have never seen one."

As you are so obviously much more well-read on the topic than I, why don't you post a picture of a cartridge box labeled as .38 Colt Special Hi-Speed or whatever. I await your response.
 
I agree with Kwill1911,

from the "Terms of Service" you agreed to when you joined.

PERSONAL DISPUTES
Please do not use these forums for personal disputes, heated debates, flame wars etc. You are expected to treat each other with respect in the forums and take any personal disputes to a private mode of discussion off the forums. If you should find that your discussion is becoming too heated or someone is becoming far too passionate about their argument, please take the discussion to private message or email.

and from the General Posting Rules:

2. Remember- opinions will differ. Get over it. State your opinion calmly, and allow others to state theirs. Discussion will be fine, but there is no need to take a thread into a verbal fistfight or shouting match.

3. Do NOT descend into personal attacks on a member.
Naiveté, or viewpoints different from yours are no reason to call a member an idiot or moron.
If a poster is obnoxious, report him and ignore him.
Do not feed trolls.
NO LYNCHINGS or MUGGINGS.
Learn to use the "IGNORE" feature for posters that ANNOY you. In your User CP, under Settings & Options, click Edit Ignore List.


Dan
 
DWalt said:
Shawn, please re-read my posting. It does NOT say what you attributed it as saying. I will repeat it so you get it correct this time, but if you had bothered to read it the first time this would not be necessary:

"However, I have never run across any box marked as containing .38 Colt Special which gave any indication that it was "Hi-Speed", "Super X", "Super Speed" or any other indicia of being a high velocity (.38/44) loading. I can't say for sure that there were no such boxes, but I have never seen one."

As you are so obviously much more well-read on the topic than I, why don't you post a picture of a cartridge box labeled as .38 Colt Special Hi-Speed or whatever. I await your response.
Click to expand...

Your wish is my command.

:)
 

Attachments

  • 38 Colt Special Hi-Speed (end).jpg
    38 Colt Special Hi-Speed (end).jpg
    15.5 KB · Views: 76
  • 38 Colt Special Hi-Speed (front).jpg
    38 Colt Special Hi-Speed (front).jpg
    11.9 KB · Views: 60
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

quinn
Frank Baughman's Registered Magnum Prototype--Added photos post 16
2
Replies
20
Views
1K
Truckman
Truckman
boykinlp
Extremely Sad News For Me!
2
Replies
27
Views
2K
chuckie
chuckie
quinn
Took 1, Came Home With 2: FBI Reg Mags
Replies
7
Views
949
rednichols
R
RM Vivas
NYPD - M&P #S812894 - How I Research The NYPD Guns
2
Replies
22
Views
2K
dobegrant
dobegrant
Faulkner
Tales from the Faulkner Files: Trail of the brush hog +Final Chapter
2
Replies
39
Views
3K
Krogen
Krogen

Latest posts

Back
Top