I bought this 38/44 Outdoorsman at the gun show today. It's the first one that I had ever seen. (Apologize for I Phone photos and orientation of the first photo, can't get photobucket to cooperate) The dealer said he believed it had been re-blued; however, he was not certain. If so it was most probably not done at the factory as there are no factory marks on the frame. All numbers match, save the aftermarket Eagle grips. All the markings are very crisp and do not appear to have been polished. The screw holes are not dished. The seams meet well with no separations. There are some very small imperfections (the photos will not show them) in the sideplates as if the polishing was not perfect. These can only be seen with a magnifying glass.

Apart from opinions about the refinish or not, my main question is about the hammer and trigger. The dealer said the hammer was a King double cockeyed hammer, but there are no markings on it other than "Reg US Patent Office." The hammer does not have the double lines as other ones I have seen in photos. The hammer and trigger do not appear to have been case colored. If they were at one time there is no case color left. The action is absolutely the smoothest I have ever felt, better than my RM.

The serial number is 41843. The SCSW points to a 1933 manufacture. There is a "B" on the inside of the barrel shroud. There is a very small "B" on the right side of the frame. On the left side of the frame, where the "B" usually is there is only a very small "2."

The bluing does not appear to be as "deep" as my K22 Outdoorsman or the RM, both of which are unmolested.

I would like your opinions on the gun. I probably paid too much for it, but it was the first I had ever seen in person and could not pass it up as I love 1930's S&W's.

Thanks in advance,

Bill

I have the same hammer on mine without the lines across it, I'm 99% sure King did it because they also replaced the front sight and rear blade on it. I'm kind of thinking maybe early king hammers were like yours and mine?





The action on mine is nothing short of perfection. I've never felt any revolver with an action as nice as it. It sounds like you might have the same thing with yours.

The pre war long action is definitely a thing of amazing beauty. My 1933 Outdoorsman has the sweetest trigger pull I've ever experienced. The good news is that there are lots of pre war Smiths that will feel like that if they have been well maintained and have proper lubrication. The Outdoorsman I bought a couple weeks ago is my first pre war gun, but now I'm addicted!

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Peter
S&WCA #2620

I've had a chance to feel 2 other 38/44 outdoorsman triggers and they aren't as good as this one. I mean, they were fantastic, but this one is different.

Maybe you've got a freak. I would feel the same way about mine if I hadn't experienced a friend's Triple Lock and Outdoorsman that were very similar to mine. Then I went to the LGS and tried out four pre war guns, none of which were near as nice as the one I have or the ones my friend has. This is what I was alluding to with the well maintained and properly lubricated comment.

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Peter
S&WCA #2620

Well, I do know exactly what you mean about pre-war triggers. I have a Triple Lock and Registered Magnum with pretty amazing triggers, and my Heavy Duty is no slouch. I really didn't think it was possible to come up with a gun with a better trigger until this one. If King didn't work this action I can only imagine the letter on this gun is going to come back as being something really special.

If your are willing to share I would appreciate the serial number of your Outdoorsman for my files (Private Message).

Best Regards,

Jerry

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.38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator

Sure.

Thank You ! Every "new" one helps !
How about sharing a photo of the entire gun? It looks like a nice one !

Jerry

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.38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator

Hi,
Congrats, you have pre war 38/44 Outdoorsman. Your gun left the factory with service grips and it is hard to tell if it has been refinished from the pics although if it has, it was done by someone who knew what they were doing as the sideplate fit is not dished out from the pics and looks tight like it left the factory. The hammer has been modified and we would ask if it is marked? anyway, it is a great gu!
Thanks for sharing,
Bill

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38-44heavyduty.com

The hammer is not marked except for the "Reg US Pat Off" on the back. No other markings.

If refinished it was a good job. The color is a bit off when compared to my RM and K22 Outdoorsman. When studied with a magnifying glass there are tiny "dished out" imperfections on both sideplates. I will try to take better photos tomorrow in the sunlight and with a real camera.

Nice looking revolver.

I believe it has been reblued. Looking at picture # 2, the edges look a little "soft". Plus, it appears a little plum colored.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Bill:

1st of all - Congratulations on a great gun. I have SN 41871 and it shipped in May 1933.

Opinions:

1. Pre-war guns were polished after the roll marks were applied, resulting in some persons believing that a gun was refinished, when it was not. You seem to know what you are doing when you evaluated the gun's finish in comparison to you K-22 OD and your RM. Another way to see if it was refinished is to check and see if the the trigger rebound stud (protrudes on the left side under your grip) is polished flat or if it is still rounded and "proud". When these prewar guns were refinished, that protruding stud was oft times polished flat with the side. If yours is still rounded, with all of your other observations, I would expect that the gun is not refinished.

2. The hammer looks like it could have been done by King. If I recall correctly, you could send your hammer to King and they would cock-eye or double cock-eye it and send it back to you for a fee. Regardless of who made your hammer, it is way cool.

3. Last observation - the Outdoorsmans of the K-22 and 38-44 varieties have some of the most graceful lines of any gun ever produced.

Enjoy the ride!

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

That is an excellent revolver, and I agree with RKMesa's observations. I too believe that could be a King Double cockeye hammer.

I would be interested to see a photo of the rear sight. It may be factory original, or it could be a King replacement. The front sight appears to be original.

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David Wilson

[QUOTE=RKmesa;137400366]Bill:

1st of all - Congratulations on a great gun. I have SN 41871 and it shipped in May 1933.

Opinions:

1. Pre-war guns were polished after the roll marks were applied, resulting in some persons believing that a gun was refinished, when it was not. You seem to know what you are doing when you evaluated the gun's finish in comparison to you K-22 OD and your RM. Another way to see if it was refinished is to check and see if the the trigger rebound stud (protrudes on the left side under your grip) is polished flat or if it is still rounded and "proud". When these prewar guns were refinished, that protruding stud was oft times polished flat with the side. If yours is still rounded, with all of your other observations, I would expect that the gun is not refinished.


I checked the trigger rebound stud and it is still rounded. It does not appear to have been polished.

My belief that it may have been refinished are based on:

1. The seller thought it had.

2. The bluing is not as deep of a blue as other contemporary guns. It looks more black, but I will have to look at it in full sunlight.

3. The small "dimples" that appear under the bluing under magnification.

Hopefully I can get better photos today.

Bill:

Thank you for posting your new OD !
I have # 41840 and it was shipped Sept 1932. Several others in the range of yours were shipped in late-1932 to mid-1933.

I look forward to seeing the new detailed photos !

Jerry

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.38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator

Congradulations

I have #41877, but it's not in as good a shape yours is, and has some very light surface rust in some small areas. I wished mine had the hammer you displayed, but alas, mine is just as it came from the factory. As far as trigger pull goes, mine too, has possibly the best trigger pull on anything that I have ever fired, and it's the most accurate handgun that I've ever shot using my wadcutter recipe. I love mine, and maybe one day, I can find a 38/44 HD to go with it.

Once again, congradulations on a really nice find..

I have #41873 !
How about sharing a photo of your OD?

Jerry

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.38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator

This post couldn't come at a better time, thank you! That is a great looking gun. I've just come across an Outdoorsman in the same general S/N range but in slightly less condition than yours, seller is asking $900 for it. It has somekind of early looking thumbrest stocks on it and some slight rust spots under the stocks, it has not been refinished.
Is the asking price out of line for an Outdoorsman in this condition?
RD

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Got a Phd from Hard Knocks U

Updated photos as promised.

I tried to address all the requests for photos here.

This time I photographed it outside, but I am no photographer. The gun looks like it had been waxed and the photos show some of that. I stripped it with gun-scrubber, but it is too late to take outside photos now. Hopefully these will be better than the initial ones.

I took some photos beside my RM (2269) and my 1933/34 K-22 Outdoorsman for comparison on the color of the bluing. Neither are in the same condition, but both are original. The color of the Outdoorsman looks closer to the others in the sunlight than I thought.

The more I look at it the more I am leaning to it having been refinished. I plan to have some "experts" look at it tomorrow and get their opinion. Some of the edges look a little rounded (soft) and there is something on the right side plate that I cannot adequately describe, but I don't think the photos will show it. It is as if it was not polished completely before the bluing was applied. I thought it was just wax smudges, but it is still visible (to the naked eye) after stripping.

There is no rust or pitting on the gun. Anything that looks like that in the photos is dust or smudges from my attempt at cleaning it.

Thanks for all your comments and I welcome more as to the condition.

Thanks,

Bill

Bill:

VERY nice !

Thank you for the updated photos !

Jerry

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.38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator

The more I look at it the more I am leaning to it having been refinished. I plan to have some "experts" look at it tomorrow and get their opinion.

Somebody git a rope!!!!

Hey Bill

I looked at that gun Sat. I was convinced it was original finish until I looked at the ejector star and the end of the ejector rod, both of which were blued. The gun did not look polished at all. Its a very nice looking gun, and I think you did very well on it. My buddy and I were headed back today for a second look, but IT WAS GONE. Congrats. If you can get some good close up pics of the rear of the cylinder and the forward end of the ejector rod, we may get some additional opinions. Some magnum cylinder stars were shipped blue, I don't know about the 38/44's.

Charlie

Often times the prewar ejector star and the front of the rod were blued as the soft fitting assembly was done prior to the gun and its parts being blued. This is the case with many guns until the soft fitting process was done away with in the late 1950's or early 60's (I cannot remember exactly when). So on pre war and early post war guns, a refinish is not a given when the ejector star and rod tip are not in the white.

The thing in the photos that has me waffling on my prior "original finish" vote, is the rear sight, and the "grain" of some of the finish buffing. The rear sight appears to be polished more than "normal" and the elevation adjustment screw is not "standard" - it is significantly over sized. The grain on the finish buffing also appears to be in a slightly different direction than the buffing on many of my pre-war O/D's. I would love to see this one in person, as the deepness of the blue is tough to gauge in photos.

Regardless - I really like the OD and would be happy to welcome it into my heard, which is a very junior heard when compared to Jerry's mega-heard ...

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

I had two friends, who know a great deal more about S&W's than I do, look at the gun and their consensus was that it had been refinished. There are telltale signs in that there had been small pits that, after polishing, appear as small depressions. They can only be seen under magnification or in bright sunlight.

Both said the refinish was extremely well done, especially since the gun is not marked as being done by the factory. Both commented on how smooth the action is.

Since the refinish issue has been settled, now my question is what is it worth?

Thanks,

Bill